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Jueves 21 de enero de 2016 - Estrasburgo Edición revisada

4. Aumento de la amenaza terrorista (debate)
Vídeo de las intervenciones
PV
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  Preşedintele. – Primul punct de pe ordinea de zi este dezbaterea privind Declarațiile Consiliului și ale Comisiei pe tema intensificării amenințării teroriste (2016/2519(RSP)).

 
  
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  Bert Koenders, President-in-Office of the Council. Mr President, on this occasion, ten weeks after the Paris terrorist attacks, I would like to be able to say that most probably we will never again witness such a heinous attack in Europe. Unfortunately, I am not convinced that this is true. On the contrary, judging from recent events, the terrorist threat seems to be increasing in the European Union, but also in its vicinity and further afield, as the recent attacks in Istanbul, Jakarta, Ouagadougou and Charsadda in Pakistan have shown.

As the Presidency, we will do everything within our powers to improve the Union’s capacity to counter this threat and to protect our citizens. In this context, counter—terrorism will be a key topic at the informal meeting of the Justice and Home Affairs Ministers next week in Amsterdam. The Presidency also attaches great importance to the rule of law and to getting the balance right in this respect in the fight against terrorism. Obstacles to the exchange of information on foreign terrorist fighters and the way forward to clear these obstacles will be first and foremost on the agenda. Another issue that we will address is information sharing between Member States on firearms and explosive precursors. Implementation of the measures agreed is key, as indicated in the EU Internal Security Strategy 2015-2020.

The Heads of State and Government statement on counter-terrorism of 12 February 2015, after the Charlie Hebdo attacks, remains the framework the European Union needs to implement urgently, as called for by the European Council. You can be assured that the Presidency will spare no effort to promote rapid progress in its implementation. Progress has been made over the past months and was set out in a public report by the European Union Counter—Terrorism Coordinator in late November.

Information sharing and operational cooperation are top priorities identified by the Council. Progress has been made. The agreement on the European Union PNR Directive will support police and intelligence agencies in tracking down possible terrorists and criminals by accessing travel details of passengers.

On 1 January, Europol launched the European Counter—Terrorism Centre (ECTC). This is a more robust platform through which Member States can increase information sharing and operational coordination. This includes the monitoring and investigation of foreign terrorist fighters, as well as the trafficking of illegal firearms and terrorist financing. In November 2015 Member States committed to seconding counter-terrorism (CT) experts to the ECTC to form an enhanced cross-border investigation support unit. Europol is actively engaged in supporting ongoing CT investigations in several Member States. The progress of contributions to the various EU databases is being monitored and discussed in the Council.

Outside the European Union context, cooperation and information sharing among security services will be stepped up in the context of the Counter Terrorist Group (CTG), and the Commission will soon present its proposal on updating the European Criminal Records Information System for the systematic sharing of criminal records data for people connected to terrorism.

Furthermore, we have started discussing the proposal to amend to framework decision on combating terrorism. On 2 December 2015, the Commission presented a draft directive with a view to collectively implementing UN Security Council Resolution 2178 and the additional Protocol to the Council of Europe Convention. Negotiations on this directive are already under way and we hope to be in a position to achieve an agreement in June this year.

Apart from enhancing the exchange of law enforcement information, countering radicalisation and recruitment remains a priority. An EU approach is needed, taking into account that over 5 000 citizens have left to fight for terrorist organisations in Iraq and Syria. Concerning integration and non-discrimination, we should create opportunities for all. We should do much more on tolerance and anti-Muslim hatred, further inter-religious dialogue and communicate our values. Education is key and we look forward to Commission initiatives in this context.

But prevention alone is not enough. The return of well—trained radicalised individuals poses a genuine security threat. At European Union level, the main tool we have for sharing best practices is the Radicalisation Awareness Network. This network has made impressive strides in recent months, facilitating the flow of best practice and expertise between Member States. We can also begin to share expertise with third countries. The immediate focus here will be the Middle East, the North Africa region and Turkey.

It is a fact that the internet is one of the primary channels for radicalisation, publishing and proliferating illegal content. The establishment of an Internet Referral Unit within Europol’s Counter—Terrorism Centre has improved our ability to obtain the removal of terrorist threats. On 3 December 2015 the EU Internet Forum was launched. The objective is to identify and remove terrorist content and to develop effective counter-narratives. In this context, cooperation with the providers is obviously important.

The discussion of the Commission’s proposal for an EU action plan against illicit trafficking in and use of firearms and explosives has begun. The Presidency aims to reach a general approach on this new proposal.

Finally, I would like to mention the border police package, which is also important in the context of the fight against terrorism, as we have to strengthen controls at the EU’s external borders. Border security is not a top priority under our Presidency. On this issue one should of course be careful about mixing migration and terrorism. We cannot turn our eyes away from the threat, but let us not forget that the vast majority of migrants are fleeing situations of conflict and even fleeing from terrorism themselves. The close cooperation with key partners, such as the United States, is continuing. Furthermore, we will continue to strengthen our counter-terrorism engagement with partners in North Africa, the Middle East, Turkey and the Western Balkans.

Let me conclude by saying that I think we all share the same objectives. Among other things, this was demonstrated by your resolution of February last year on anti-terrorism and the reports adopted by the Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs at the end of last year. We look forward to a fruitful cooperation.

 
  
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  Dimitris Avramopoulos, Member of the Commission. Mr President, as you all know, 2015 has been a turning point in Europe’s experience of terrorism. Terror has claimed the lives of 150 innocent people – too many lives lost, and too many lives scarred.

We have to be realistic: the terrorist threat in the European Union is high. The terrorist threat is there. We are determined to respond with resolve and resilience, and at the same time to uphold our values of tolerance, democracy and respect for fundamental rights.

From day one of this Commission, we stressed that combating terrorism was a common European responsibility. Our European Agenda on Security has been on the table, as you know, since last April. We have drastically accelerated its delivery with the political agreement on the EU PNR, the proposal for a directive on terrorism, the November firearms package, the action plan on firearms trafficking, the EUROPOL Regulation adopted in December, the reinforced RAN Centre of Excellence to counter radicalisation, the launch of the EU internet forum to counter harmful content online and, just this week, the proposal to exchange the criminal records of non-EU nationals.

These are all tangible measures to strengthen our security across borders, and more is coming. 2016 will be the year when we go after terrorist money. We need to deprive terrorists of their financial resources. In early February, we will put our ideas forward with a concrete timetable.

Our Borders Package of last December is also a critical piece of the puzzle, because it will allow the systematic security checks of all people leaving and entering the EU. It is clear that we need to improve the management of our external borders in order to enhance internal security and safeguard Schengen.

I want to be clear, once again, on a related point: refugees, who are crossing our borders because they need international protection, and who are entitled to international protection, are not terrorists. I want to reaffirm that we will never equate refugees with terrorists. We cannot, and we must not, allow fear to prevail.

Let me finally turn to information sharing: this is a sensitive, but as you will understand, a very crucial issue. As you know, it is one of the central pillars of our Security Agenda. The EU tools are there to facilitate the exchange of information between national law enforcement authorities. The Schengen Information System, Europol’s databases and the Prüm framework should be used to the maximum by the Member States. Member States need to trust each other more: they need to share more information, between themselves and also with Europol. Law enforcement authorities across Member States, including specialised law enforcement agencies, all work for the same purpose: the security of our citizens. We need to understand that, collectively, we are all safer. The threats we face are common. Our approaches to the threats need to be common too. This is not a competition. We reinforce each other if we cooperate. Information is already being exchanged at various levels – but we need more of it, not less.

Next week, we will officially launch the European Counter Terrorism Centre at Europol. It has been operational since 1 January 2016. The Centre can become the hub of our counter-terrorism operations if we make the best use of it, and if Member States share information. This centre can only succeed in its mission if we all help it to succeed. The support provided by Europol to French and Belgian investigators after the Paris attacks is the best example of the role that the European Counter Terrorism Centre could play: cross-checking data, facilitating information-sharing and providing analytical and operational assistance to the national services on the ground.

One year ago, following the Charlie Hebdo attacks, we stressed that our response would not be dictated by fear or driven by hasty conclusions. The Commission proposed several concrete actions which are part of a comprehensive approach, and in this collective effort we have made progress. But recent events remind us that we still need to do much more. Now is the time to act and to strengthen our cooperation.

Let us make 2016 a turning point for Europe to tackle terrorism decisively, head-on, in all its aspects.

 
  
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  Ελισσάβετ Βόζεμπεργκ-Βρυωνιδη, εξ ονόματος της ομάδας PPE. Κύριε Πρόεδρε, σήμερα το περιοδικό Dabiq με τον τίτλο "Just terror" γράφει επί λέξει:

‘Let Paris be a lesson for those nations that wish to take heed.’

Αντιλαμβανόμαστε ότι η δημοσίευση των φωτογραφιών των τρομοκρατών που χτύπησαν στο Παρίσι τις προάλλες αποτελεί έκφραση της βούλησης να διαφημιστεί μια πολιτική της τρομοκρατίας. Η πολιτική της τρομοκρατίας όμως δεν μπορεί να περάσει στην Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση και τούτο γιατί η Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση διαπνέεται από τις αρχές και τους κανόνες της πολιτικής της δημοκρατίας. Σήμερα, σύμφωνα με τις έρευνες της Εuropol, περίπου έξι ή πέντε χιλιάδες ευρωπαίοι πολίτες είναι τρομοκράτες. Αυτό θα το επιτρέψουμε να συνεχίζεται; Πώς μπορούμε να το ελέγξουμε; Τι έχουν κάνει η Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση και το Συμβούλιο; Έχουμε κάνει βήματα, πολύ σημαντικά. Η απάντησή μας στους τρομοκράτες είναι ότι o φόβος δεν πρόκειται να επικρατήσει. Πώς μπορεί όμως να ελεγχθεί αυτό το φαινόμενο; Υπάρχουν οι δομημένες ομάδες, υπάρχουν τα δίκτυα των τρομοκρατών, υπάρχουν στόχοι: ανθρώπινες ζωές, περιθωριοποίηση της Ευρώπης, κλείσιμο συνόρων. Είναι πολύ ορθή η πολιτική την οποία ακολουθούμε και δεν μπορούμε να συγχέουμε τη μετανάστευση με την τρομοκρατία, διότι δεν έχει καμία σχέση το ένα φαινόμενο με το άλλο, ανεξάρτητα αν με την ανεξέλεγκτη ροή των μεταναστών πολλές φορές παρεισφρέουν και τρομοκράτες. Δεν υπάρχει περίπτωση όμως για το Ευρωπαϊκό Κοινοβούλιο, για την Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση, για την ευρωπαϊκή αντίληψη του κόσμου, να ταυτιστούν αυτά τα δύο φαινόμενα. Κυρίες και κύριοι συνάδελφοι, αυτό το οποίο πρέπει να προσέξουμε και μάλιστα πολύ σοβαρά, είναι με ποιον τρόπο θα κατορθώσουμε να ελέγξουμε το φαινόμενο. Θα το ελέγξουμε μέσα από το Διαδίκτυο, θα το ελέγξουμε μέσα από τη συνεργασία των κρατών μελών, θα το ελέγξουμε μέσα από τη συνεργασία με τρίτες χώρες, διότι η τρομοκρατία έχει πρόσωπο, ένα εξαιρετικά απεχθές πρόσωπο, στο οποίο η απάντηση της Ευρωπαϊκής Ένωσης δεν μπορεί παρά να είναι περισσότερη Δημοκρατία.

(Η ομιλήτρια δέχεται να απαντήσει σε ερώτηση με «γαλάζια κάρτα» (άρθρο 162 παράγραφος 8 του Κανονισμού))

 
  
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  Marek Jurek (ECR), pytanie zadane przez podniesienie niebieskiej kartki. – Zarówno w tym co pani mówiła, jak i w tym, co mówił pan komisarz Avramopoulos, jest dużo racji. Nie należy wiązać różnych zjawisk: uchodźstwa z imigracją, imigracji z poparciem dla terroryzmu czy nawet poparcia dla terroryzmu z terroryzmem. Ale czy naprawdę nie widzi pani poseł, że to obecność wielomilionowych społeczności muzułmańskich stworzyła podglebie dla terroryzmu w Europie, który już dzisiaj, niestety, jest zjawiskiem europejskim, a nie egzotycznym, nie importowanym?

 
  
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  Ελισσάβετ Βόζεμπεργκ-Βρυωνίδη ( PPE), απάντηση με "γαλάζια κάρτα". Κύριε συνάδελφε, εφόσον δεν συνδυάζουμε τα δύο φαινόμενα θα πρέπει να έχουμε μια στρατηγική ελέγχου των εξωτερικών συνόρων της Ευρώπης. Προς τον σκοπό αυτό δουλεύει η Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση, ούτως ώστε τέτοια φαινόμενα να αποτραπούν. Η επιλογή της παρεμπόδισης των ανθρώπων από το να έρχονται στην Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση δεν μας χαρακτηρίζει. Η Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση μπορεί να ελέγχει τα εξωτερικά της σύνορα, αλλά η διακίνηση των πολιτών και των εμπορευμάτων μέσω της Schengen και η κυκλοφορία των ιδεών ανήκουν στις αρχές που διαπνέουν ακριβώς την δική μας Ένωση.

 
  
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  Birgit Sippel, im Namen der S&D-Fraktion. Herr Präsident! Die terroristischen Attentate der letzten Monate in Europa – aber auch anderswo – richten sich nicht gegen bestimmte Menschen. Sie haben das Ziel, Angst zu verbreiten und somit Freiheit und Demokratie zu zerstören. Deshalb ist klar: Klare Kante gegen Terrorismus, Verteidigung unserer freien Gesellschaften!

Was heißt das? Zunächst: Der derzeitige Terrorismus ist kein nationales Phänomen. Deshalb müssen die vorhandenen europäischen Instrumente zur Ermittlung und zum Informationsaustausch deutlich besser genutzt werden. Besser vorbeugen: Dazu gehört, terroristische Propaganda im Internet zu entlarven, illegale Inhalte zu löschen und deren Verfasser zu ermitteln; Terroristen den Geldhahn zudrehen und vor allem Radikalisierung in Europa entgegentreten, durch Integration sowie flächendeckende Beratungs- und Ausstiegsprogramme.

Menschen schützen, Täter und Anstifter verurteilen: Unsere Mitgliedsstaaten sind gefordert, die personelle und sachliche Ausstattung von Polizei und Justiz angemessen zu gestalten. Es darf keine rechtsfreien Räume geben. Ermittlungen müssen analog und digital effektiv durchgeführt, gerichtliche Verfahren zeitnah aufgenommen werden.

Die effektive europäische Strafverfolgung braucht EU-weit vergleichbare Definitionen für Straftaten und für Strafen terroristischer Taten. Die Kommission hat ja hierzu einen Vorschlag vorgelegt. Und auch: Faire Verfahren müssen immer gewährleistet werden, auch damit Verfahren nicht an unzulässigen Beweismitteln scheitern.

Abschließend: vorbeugen, schützen und verfolgen. Die Instrumente des Rechtsstaates müssen konsequent genutzt werden. Nur so werden wir das Vertrauen in den Rechtsstaat erhalten und zugleich Terrorismus erfolgreich entgegentreten.

 
  
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  Ангел Джамбазки, от името на групата ECR. Уважаеми дами и господа, без съмнение терористичната заплаха е може би най-голямото предизвикателство пред държавите членки в днешния ден. „Ислямска държава“ и другите терористични организации дълго време бяха подценявани, както са подценявани и процесите на самоизолация и радикализация сред младите мюсюлмани в много европейски гета след провала на теориите за интеграцията и за мултикултурализма.

Част от европейските лидери, обаче, продължават безразсъдната политика по отношение на държавите, които открито финансират, организират и лекуват терористични организации, като Турция, Саудитска Арабия и Катар. Време е това лицемерие, тази политика на широко затворени очи да бъде прекратена.

На държавите, които финансират тероризъм, които лекуват и обучават терористи, не трябва да се плаща откуп, както постъпи Европейският съюз с Турция, а трябва да се прекратяват преговорите за членство и да се налагат санкции. На тези, които го организират, като Саудитска Арабия, трябва да се налагат търговски санкции, а не да се търгува лицемерно с тях.

Крайно време е да престанем с празните приказки, особено след Париж и след Кьолн, ако не искаме това да се превърне в наше всекидневие. Въпрос на цивилизационен и ценностен избор.

 
  
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  Petr Ježek, on behalf of the ALDE Group. Mr President, terrorism has spread into our lives, values, societies and our way of living. The scope of the threat is broad and thus requires a European response in close cooperation with our partners around the world.

A European riposte to the asymmetric war should focus in my view on the following issues: terrorism financing, internal and external security, and the root causes of terrorism.

We must adapt our legislation to better prevent and track terrorism financing. It is not expensive to conduct attacks such as those in Paris. We need tighter rules on tools like prepaid cards and stricter anti-money-laundering rules. Regarding ISIS there are some ten sources of its financing. We must strangle them all, starting with oil trafficking.

Europe cannot be insecure. We must reinforce security measures at all levels, from local to EU-wide. Of course they should be effective but not excessive. At European level, cooperation between Member States, their police and other law enforcement services is the key. We must not repeat the mistakes of the past. At the same time, we must better protect and control our external borders. The alert is high. It is crucial that all our border and coast guards and police know who enters and leaves Europe. External border control is also the best way to fight arms trafficking effectively and limit terrorists’ access to arms.

There is, however, a long-term task. Many radicalised people were born and raised in Europe and some then became foreign fighters and some conducted attacks against their own country. Teams with expertise and on-the-ground experience should develop integration projects which local authorities should then implement.

 
  
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  Inês Cristina Zuber, em nome do Grupo GUE/NGL. Senhor Presidente, a estratégia deliberada da União Europeia na luta contra o terrorismo é de cerceamento da liberdade democrática e das liberdades individuais. Insistindo na tese peregrina da falsa dicotomia liberdade/segurança, apoiando uma visão militarista do alegado combate ao terrorismo que, ao invés de enfraquecer, fortalece as lógicas do ódio e da guerra.

A recorrente imposição de acrescidas medidas atentatórias de direitos e liberdades fundamentais, que acompanha sempre o incremento da escalada de militarização das relações internacionais, de guerra e de ingerência e de destabilização de Estados soberanos, alimenta o crescimento de forças racistas, xenófobas e fascistas e a sua ação de terror.

Crimes hediondos, como os que foram cometidos em Paris ou como os que há anos vêm sendo perpetrados em vários locais em todo o mundo, o que exigem é uma política de paz nas relações internacionais e o respeito pelo Direito Internacional, que ponha fim às ingerências e às agressões contra Estados soberanos, nomeadamente na região do Médio Oriente, as quais têm conduzido ao recrudescimento dos grupos terroristas.

 
  
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  Jan Philipp Albrecht, on behalf of the Verts/ALE Group. Mr President, I am delighted to hear the Presidency outlining most of what the Commission proposes and I would be very happy if it were possible to work more quickly towards solutions on fighting terrorism than was possible in the past. It was Member States that blocked many measures to set common standards in the area of criminal proceedings, cooperation on organised crime and terrorism, and especially information sharing between institutions and authorities of the Member States and Europol or other agencies at the European level, and it is still not working.

Information sharing, especially when it comes to information on suspects and risks, is still not working, and it is this that we need to strengthen: not gathering loads of data on individuals who are not relevant at all for investigators, but concentrating on the quick exchange of information on persons who are suspicious and areas where there are risks.

That is also needed not only for effectiveness, but because we are still in rule-of-law-based democracies and we have to respect the fundamental values which we defend here against the terrorists. It was reiterated just days ago by the Strasbourg Court of Human Rights, with regard to a case in Hungary, that you always need to have a suspicion or risk in order to retain data on individuals. So we should stick to that and strengthen that and not build further information-gathering measures.

 
  
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  Steven Woolfe, on behalf of the EFDD Group. Mr President, the first rule of any government is the protection of its people, and the protection of the people of Europe from terrorism is at least something, I recognise, you understand as being serious. But in order to deal with the problem of terrorism you must at first know who your enemy is and who your friends are. You must know where they share your values and where they come from and this is where the analysis of the European Union is failing. You have to understand the problem, you have to understand where they are, and you have to understand what they are doing here.

The first part of the problem, Minister, is that in the language of yourself and of the Commissioner – I quote from you: ʻthe vast majority of migrants are fleeing terrorism’ – that quite frankly is not true. We know that the vast majority of migrants are economic migrants; the vast majority of asylum seekers are genuinely people fleeing terrorism: that is the first part of the problem you must address.

The second part of the problem, you must understand, is that the open borders that you have created and are not willing to challenge – you do not know who has come in, you do not know where they are and you do not know how they get here – creates the last form of terrorism, the internal terrorism that the women in Cologne and Bonn and Berlin and Sweden and all other parts of Europe that suffered over New Year’s Eve will have to face. That is your problem.

(The speaker agreed to take a blue-card question under Rule 162(8))

 
  
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  Ivan Jakovčić (ALDE), blue-card question. You said many things and I agree with you, but do you agree with me that terrorism is a universal threat? We also have terrorism inside Europe – you remember what happened in Northern Ireland, in Germany, in Italy, in Norway or in other countries in Europe. That is our European problem – it is European terrorism. We are not speaking only and just about the terrorists who are coming into Europe. I think that terrorism is a universal threat for us and that we have to combat all types of terrorism. Do you agree with me?

 
  
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  Steven Woolfe (EFDD), blue-card answer. Sir, may I add that your English is excellent in comparison to my understanding and knowledge of your language, and I welcome that. You are quite right that terrorism is an international problem. It stretches and hurts and pains families across the globe, and yes, we have our own problems with individuals here – and we have that on a home-grown basis. But the issue that we are facing today is ISIS and the evil ideology that is attempting to turn man against man and woman against woman, and we have to have a solution – not just a European Union solution, but a global solution. That is the way forward, and the only way that we can tackle it.

 
  
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  Vicky Maeijer, namens de ENF-Fractie. Vandaag spreken wij hier over de verhoogde terreurdreiging en het lijkt voor velen van u steeds weer als een verrassing te komen dat Europa het doelwit is van islamitische terreur. Dat komt omdat men, ondanks de aanslagen in Parijs, Kopenhagen, Brussel, Madrid en Londen, nog steeds de verkeerde analyse maakt van de reden waarom het Westen onder vuur ligt van wie het op ons hebben voorzien.

Ondanks de vele doden die al zijn gevallen uit naam van de islamitische staat ontkent u dat deze terroristen hun inspiratie halen uit de Koran. Ondanks het feit dat is vastgesteld dat terroristen de asielinvasie gebruiken om de Europese Unie binnen te komen, doen sommigen hier dat nog steeds af als hysterie. En ondanks de acute dreiging van aanslagen in heel West-Europa blijft de politieke elite hier nog steeds geloven in de utopie die multiculturalisme heet.

Voorzitter, de enige juiste analyse moet zijn dat de islam het grootste gevaar is, de islam is uit op werelddominantie. Maar er heerst nog een ander groot gevaar in Europa: het gevaar van de laffe politiek correcte elite, die het beestje niet bij de naam durft te noemen, maar wel door een opengrenzenpolitiek het Europese continent met de islamitische invasie laat overstromen.

Dat de vele slachtoffers van terreur, aanrandingen en verkrachtingen nog steeds geen reden vormen om een einde aan deze invasie te maken is dan ook voor mij onbegrijpelijk. Sterker nog, alleen de eerste weken van deze maand kwamen er alweer eenendertigduizend asielzoekers in Griekenland aan, onder hen vast en zeker jihadisten en hordes testosteronbommen vol minachting voor vrouwen. En zij maken dankbaar gebruik van Schengen.

Zonder grenzen is er geen veiligheid mogelijk en het is niet de vraag of, maar wanneer we de volgende aanslag of georganiseerde massa-aanranding kunnen verwachten. Dus, als u echt die verhoogde terreurdreiging en de veiligheid van de inwoners van onze Europese landen serieus neemt, dan wordt het tijd dat u erkent dat de enige oplossing in de strijd tegen terreur het sluiten van de nationale grenzen is, het terugsturen van al die zogenaamde asielzoekers naar waar zij vandaan komen, en de islamisering van het Europese continent een halt toeroepen.

 
  
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  Λάμπρος Φουντούλης ( NI). Κύριε Πρόεδρε, ξαφνικά η Ευρώπη ανακάλυψε την τρομοκρατία. Τόσο το κίνημά μας η Χρυσή Αυγή, όσο και άλλα εθνικιστικά κινήματα σε ολόκληρη την Ευρώπη προειδοποιούσαν εδώ και πάρα πολλά χρόνια για το τι επρόκειτο να συμβεί. Μας κατηγορείτε για Ισλαμοφοβικούς. Πείτε το αυτό στους γονείς των παιδιών που πήγαν στο Bataclan να διασκεδάσουν και δεν γύρισαν ποτέ στο σπίτι τους. «Δεν θα υποκύψουμε», λέτε, «στην τρομοκρατία», όταν πρωτεύουσες ευρωπαϊκών χωρών έχουν το στρατό στους δρόμους για να αντιμετωπίσουν την απειλή. Έχετε χάσει την επαφή με την πραγματικότητα και την καθημερινότητα του Ευρωπαίου πολίτη. Οι πολιτικές σας των ανοιχτών συνόρων, της κατάρρευσης των αξιών και του πρωτοφανούς ρατσισμού εις βάρος των γηγενών δεν μπορούσαν παρά να προσφέρουν γόνιμο έδαφος στον σπόρο του ισλαμικού φονταμενταλισμού. Όσο και να προσπαθείτε, μέσω των μέσων μαζικής ενημέρωσης να το αποκρύψετε, η τρομοκρατία στην Ευρώπη έχει ισλαμική ταυτότητα.

Η οργανωμένη επίθεση στην Κολωνία την 1η του έτους εναντίον γυναικών, είναι τρομοκρατικό χτύπημα. Έστειλαν το μήνυμα: «είμαστε εδώ και θα ..... τις γυναίκες, τις κόρες και τις αδελφές σας!» και εσείς προτείνετε στις γυναίκες να μην ντύνονται προκλητικά και να μη φορούν αρώματα. Τα περισσότερα τζαμιά που λειτουργούν αυτή τη στιγμή στην Ευρώπη δεν είναι παρά φυτώρια τρομοκρατών. Ποια είναι η λύση; Εγκαταλείψτε τις ιδεολογικές σας αγκυλώσεις, θωρακίστε την ήπειρό μας από τα εκατομμύρια που συρρέουν κάθε χρόνο παράνομα.

 
  
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  Massimiliano Salini (PPE). Signor Presidente, onorevoli colleghi, caro ministro, caro Commissario, grazie per le parole che avete detto e per il tentativo che condividete con noi, membri del Parlamento europeo, di affrontare con intelligenza, dignità e lungimiranza il grande dramma delle violenze terroristiche in Europa, in Medio Oriente, in Africa e su molti scenari mondiali. Questi giorni le notizie non confortano e, a maggior ragione, ci pregiamo di poter dire, come Parlamento europeo, che l'azione che stiamo tentando nell'Unione europea, sia sulle politiche di gestione dei dati col PNR, sia nel tentativo di condividere una ragionevole ma ferma politica di difesa del nostro continente, stanno andando nella direzione corretta. Ma non basta. Lo vediamo: i fronti su cui la nostra debolezza, inevitabile debolezza, si esprime sono molti, sono molti e c'entrano anche col tema dell'immigrazione.

Io condivido chi correttamente, anche durante questo dibattito, ha deciso di negare un nesso di causalità tra l'immigrazione e il terrorismo. È sbagliato associare in modo generico i due fenomeni, ma è altrettanto sbagliato negare che i due fenomeni possano avere cause comuni. È sbagliato pensare che se le aree islamiche normalmente producono fenomeni terroristici come quelli che drammaticamente hanno toccato il nostro continente, è sbagliato ritenere che quel fronte, dove spesso troviamo uomini che utilizzano il Corano come un breviario per somministrare violenza, possano essere lasciati nelle condizioni di continuare a farlo. Smettiamo di pensare che si possa evitare di portare democrazia nei paesi in cui non c'è, perché l'assenza di democrazia e l'assenza di civiltà che la nostra tradizione cristiana ci ha consegnato sono la prima causa di quei fenomeni terroristici.

 
  
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  Tanja Fajon (S&D). Svet pretresajo novi in novi teroristični napadi. Ta teden je napad pretresel Pakistan, minuli vikend Burkino Faso.

Leto 2015 si bomo tudi v Evropi žal zapomnili z grenkobo. Skrbi naraščajoč pojav terorizma. Mladi ljudje, rojeni v Evropi, ki zaradi izključenosti iz družbe podležejo radikalizaciji. Izzivi so izjemni.

Terorizem predstavlja nevarnost miru in svetovni ureditvi, a še kako je pomembno, da vsakič znova ločimo in poudarimo: ne smemo povezovati beguncev s terorizmom! Večina beguncev beži zaradi terorizma in vojn.

Varnost ljudi je nujna, a zgolj ukrepi za krepitev varnosti so obsojeni na neuspeh, v kolikor ne bomo teh ustrezno pospremili s socialnimi politikami doma, pa tudi zunaj Evrope, za preprečevanje radikalizacije.

Vzroke kriz moramo naslavljati pri njenih izvorih. Evropa nujno potrebuje tudi jasno strategijo, kako ravnati s povratniki.

Izmenjava informacij, da, to je ključ. Dokler ta ne bo med državami delovala, potem, žal, noben ukrep ne bo pomagal. Zato pa je ključna tudi izgradnja zaupanja.

Države članice morajo aktivneje sodelovati pri izmenjavi podatkov o kriminalu, sledenju in financiranju tujih borcev, terorističnih celic, sledenju orožja in drugih grožnjah evropske varnosti.

Preseneča me drža Sveta, ki ni pristal na obvezno izmenjavo podatkov o morebitnih teroristih v novi direktivi PNR, kljub dejstvu, da bi ta lahko preprečila marsikatero tragedijo.

Odločneje se moramo zoperstaviti radikalni islamistični propagandi na družbeni omrežjih, opolnomočiti moramo starše in uveljaviti starševska dovoljenja za potovanja mladostnikov, več glasu moramo dati žrtvam, učinkoviteje odkrivati ter rehabilitirati v družbo problematične, radikalizirane posameznike.

Boj proti terorizmu mora zajemati varnostne ukrepe ob polnem spoštovanju človekovih pravic.

(Govornica se je strinjala, da bo sprejela vprašanje, postavljeno z dvigom modrega kartončka (člen 162(8)).

 
  
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  Kazimierz Michał Ujazdowski (ECR), pytanie zadane przez podniesienie niebieskiej kartki. – Panie Przewodniczący! Szanowna Pani Poseł! Wedle mojej pamięci to socjaliści byli jedną z grup, która spowalniała prace nad dyrektywą PNR. Parę tygodni temu Komisja wystąpiła z nowym projektem dyrektywy antyterrorystycznej. To jest dobra dyrektywa. Chciałbym zapytać panią jako przedstawicielkę grupy socjalistów, czy socjaliści poprą dyrektywę antyterrorystyczną przedłożoną przez Komisję czy tak jak w przypadku dyrektywy PNR będziemy mieć do czynienia z blokowaniem prac nad nią?

 
  
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  Tanja Fajon (S&D), odgovor na vprašanje, postavljeno z dvigom modrega kartončka. Spoštovani kolega, hvala za vaše vprašanje.

V tem trenutku je pomembno predvsem poudariti, da je nujna izmenjava informacij, vendar pa nikakor ne smemo iti predaleč v smeri poseganja v lastno zasebnost.

Nekaj je izmenjava informacij o terorizmu, organiziranemu kriminalu, tako da bo vse odvisno od tega, kaj vse bo tudi prinašal predlog in kako bodo potekala pogajanja.

 
  
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  Beatrix von Storch (ECR). Herr Präsident! Wir reden heute über die gestiegene Bedrohung durch Terror. Paris war Terror. Köln war auch Terror. Köln in Zahlen: 883 Anzeigen, 30 Verdächtige, die Hälfte davon Asylbewerber und elf davon seit September nach Deutschland eingereist.

Wir können nicht über den Terror reden, ohne auch über die Migrantenkrise zu reden. Ein Täter von Paris war Asylbewerber in Deutschland. Acht bis zehn Millionen Flüchtlinge sind jetzt auf dem Weg von Syrien und Irak nach Deutschland, sagt unser Entwicklungsminister. Niemand sagt, das seien alles Terroristen. Aber die Terroristen unter ihnen missbrauchen unsere offenen Grenzen. Und es sind zu viele.

Wer für offene Grenzen verantwortlich ist, der verantwortet auch mit deren Taten, und das sind durch Tun oder durch Unterlassen in Deutschland Herr Seehofer, der sehr viel redet, die CDU-Fraktion, die sehr viele Briefe schreibt, und das ist unsere Frau Bundeskanzlerin. Sie wird in die Geschichte eingehen als Zerstörerin Europas, auch wenn sie jetzt bald zurücktritt.

 
  
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  Maite Pagazaurtundúa Ruiz (ALDE). Señor Presidente, el Consejo y la Comisión yo creo que han coincidido mucho en la lista de tareas que son necesarias para ser más eficaces ante la creciente amenaza terrorista. Y todo eso está muy bien, yo creo que está muy bien encaminado. Y les agradecemos que hayan sido ustedes coherentes y concordantes. Ahora bien, hay debilidades. Y yo, en lo que ustedes han dicho, veo dos debilidades fundamentales.

Por una parte hace falta voluntad porque, ante una amenaza global, necesitamos una respuesta también global y perfectamente bien conectada, y hay países que no colaboran suficientemente en las bases de datos, hay países que no colaboran en el intercambio de información o en las agencias de información. Y eso es una debilidad clara, porque ellos están conectados y nosotros tenemos que estar perfectamente conectados para ser eficaces.

Y la segunda debilidad son la prevención y la detección precoz. Será una amenaza global, pero la actuación tiene que ser local y no tenemos un mapeo de puntos calientes. No tenemos un protocolo sobre qué actuaciones son buenas prácticas o no. Ustedes van a celebrar un encuentro porque en algún lugar ha habido buenas prácticas. No. Tenemos que ser muchísimo más sistemáticos. La actuación local es fundamental para evitar riesgos y para evitar problemas añadidos, y tienen que trabajar muchísimo más en lo que es la mayor debilidad: la prevención y el trabajo precoz en la red local.

(La oradora acepta responder a una pregunta formulada con arreglo al procedimiento de la «tarjeta azul» (artículo 162, apartado 8, del Reglamento))

 
  
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  Tibor Szanyi (S&D), Kékkártyás kérdés. Tisztelt Képviselő Asszony! Ön két nagyon fontos kihívásról beszélt, bár én egy harmadikról szeretném kérdezni Önt. Nem tart-e attól, hogy egyes kormányok túlreagálják a veszélyeket és a kihívásokat? Tudnék konkrét példát is mondani, a magyar kormány, amelyik rendkívüli állapot bevezetésére készül. Ezt valójában Ön hogyan értékeli, hogy egyes kormányok nem feltétlen a megfelelő eszközökhöz nyúlnak és ezzel szintén veszélyeztetik az európai polgárok biztonságát és szabadságát?

 
  
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  Maite Pagazaurtundúa Ruiz (ALDE), respuesta de «tarjeta azul». Señor Szanyi, me encanta que me haga esta pregunta. Lógicamente, una de las tentaciones y de los riesgos es que los Gobiernos, al hacer frente al fanatismo, al hacer frente a los terroristas, puedan exceder los límites de la ley. Por supuesto que siempre tenemos que actuar de acuerdo con la ley, evitando la impunidad, pero también defendiendo los derechos humanos, nuestros derechos fundamentales y nuestro Estado de Derecho porque, si no, habríamos perdido la batalla contra el terrorismo, que es la batalla de nuestras libertades y de lo que hemos conquistado: nuestro Estado de Derecho. La ley, toda la ley y sin impunidad, pero sin ningún abuso. Nada de eso funciona. Los abusos siempre funcionan como un bumerán.

 
  
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  Tania González Peñas (GUE/NGL). Señor Presidente, la lucha contra el terrorismo no pasa por una falsa elección entre nuestra seguridad y nuestros derechos y libertades. Estamos ante un desafío que requiere a la vez incrementar la eficacia de la acción del Estado y reafirmar un compromiso incuestionable con la democracia y los derechos humanos, tanto dentro como fuera de nuestras fronteras. Es necesario cortar las vías de financiación y abastecimiento logístico del Estado Islámico. Debemos apoyar a las fuerzas democráticas en el mundo árabe y reforzar la sociedad civil en Siria e Irak. Es necesario neutralizar las redes de captación, mejorando los sistemas de coordinación de nuestros servicios de inteligencia. Y es también nuestra responsabilidad proteger a los refugiados que huyen del terror.

Desde luego, la mejor manera de combatir el extremismo es lograr que la gente se sienta parte de una sociedad cohesionada y cultivar las oportunidades sociales y económicas en las comunidades vulnerables. Muchos terroristas han nacido en Europa y este fenómeno solo se combate con políticas de inclusión social, especialmente a través de la educación.

 
  
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  Judith Sargentini (Verts/ALE). Ik hoorde de eurocommissaris spreken over een voorstel dat hij wil doen om terrorismefinanciering tegen te gaan. U heeft dat al een paar keer aangekondigd, maar ik wil graag begrijpen wat het doel ervan eigenlijk is.

Als je kijkt naar de aanslagen in New York, nine eleven, dan waren die eigenlijk op een koopje. Het is raar om te zeggen, maar al met al kostten die niet veel. Ook de aanslagen bij de marathon in Boston waren op een koopje. Bovendien kostten de aanslagen in Parijs uiteindelijk ook niet veel. Er wordt natuurlijk wel heel erg veel geld door bijvoorbeeld Daesh verspijkerd, maar dat gebeurt met name in Syrië, in het Midden-Oosten, om bijvoorbeeld de salarissen van de eigen strijders te betalen.

Dus wat willen wij? Willen wij door terrorismefinanciering te volgen een opsporingsmethode organiseren? Weinig geld laat helaas weinig sporen na, dus ik begrijp het niet. Of willen we - en dat zou ik ook begrijpen - een soort van "pluk ze"-beleid voeren? Haal het geld weg, ontneem hen de mogelijkheid om terrorisme te plegen. Als het weinig kost, is dat niet effectief. Dus leg het mij uit, want ik ben geïnteresseerd in wat het doel is.

 
  
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  President. – Plus they use a feudal Arabic system of transferring the money.

 
  
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  Laura Ferrara (EFDD). Signor Presidente, onorevoli colleghi, l'incremento della minaccia terroristica non deve indurre a pagare un alto prezzo in termini di compressione di libertà e di diritti per ottenere maggiore sicurezza dalle minacce soprattutto interne all'Europa e non soltanto esterne alle sue frontiere. Anche se la responsabilità di combattere tale fenomeno riguarda principalmente gli Stati membri, l'Unione europea può dare un contributo rilevante.

Occorre allora garantire un'efficiente e coordinato scambio di informazioni, migliorare il dialogo tra le banche dati e i servizi di intelligence nazionali, altrimenti rimane come alternativa ciò che si sta verificando, ovvero il ricorso alla reintroduzione dei controlli alle frontiere interne da parte degli Stati membri. In sintesi, occorre migliorare l'uso degli strumenti che già si hanno e non continuare a collezionare sempre più dati. Le organizzazioni terroristiche si combattono con il loro isolamento politico, individuando e tagliando i loro canali di finanziamento e di approvvigionamento dei dati. Raggiungere questi risultati non è impossibile, ciò che occorre è soltanto la volontà politica di realizzarli.

 
  
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  Gianluca Buonanno (ENF). Signor Presidente, onorevoli colleghi, ringrazio anche chi rappresenta oggi il governo olandese. Sono desolato e adesso mentre parlo mi incavolerò, mi incazzerò, perché siamo 751 in quest'aula, 751, saremo in 30 qui dentro, ci sono più funzionari che deputati! E questa è l'Europa che cerca di risolvere i problemi, che parla di un tema così importante come il terrorismo? Ma cazzo, io mi ribello a questa Europa, ma come fa esserci un'Europa del genere! Ma che vergogna è? Cosa diciamo noi al popolo europeo? Quando succedono gli attentati tutti a piangere come i coccodrilli! Quello che è successo a Parigi, quello che era successo a Londra, a Madrid e quello che è successo a New York.

E noi cosa diciamo? Ehh, sì, ci sono gli islamici, c'è terrorismo! Ma che vergogna è questa? Questa è l'Europa che vuole combattere? Questa è l'Europa che vuole difendere gli europei? Questa è l'Europa degli zombi! Sono dagli zombi! Perché quelli che comandano hanno le guardie del corpo, hanno le macchine blindate, hanno tutto, e mai li attaccheranno! È il popolo che viene attaccato e noi cosa diciamo? Grazie all'islam. Intanto diamo miliardi e miliardi alla Turchia e la vogliamo dentro nell'Europa. 90 % della Turchia è fatta di islamici. Io non ce l'ha con gli islamici, ci mancherebbe altro, però noi siamo europei, siamo occidentali facciamo vedere che abbiamo le palle!

(L'oratore accetta di rispondere a una domanda "cartellino blu" (articolo 162, paragrafo 8, del regolamento))

 
  
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  Ivan Jakovčić (ALDE), Domanda "cartellino blu". Visto che avete accettato la mia "carta blu" lo dirò in italiano così mi capirà più facilmente. Non vi pare "ipocrisia" quando lei arriva adesso in questo momento, poco fa, qui nell'Aula e dopo se ne andrà subito via? Perché io sono qui ogni giorno dalla mattina fino alla sera e lei viene qui, come anche il vostro presidente Salvini, dice che in Aula non c'è nessuno e dopo se ne va via. Questa è "ipocrisia". È d'accordo con me?

 
  
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  Gianluca Buonanno (ENF), Risposta a una domanda "cartellino blu". A tutti quelli che applaudono, dico di andare a guardare i miei dati: sono su 751 deputati al sedicesimo posto per produzione, per presenze in Aula, per voti. Quindi non le devi dire a me queste cose qua, perché io vengo qua, lavoro, mi do da fare, sono al sedicesimo posto e faccio pure il sindaco.

Tu non so che cosa fai dal mattino alla sera ma io so cosa faccio io. Chiaro?

(L'oratore accetta di rispondere a una domanda "carton bleu" (articolo 162, paragrafo 8, del regolamento))

 
  
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  Maite Pagazaurtundúa Ruiz (ALDE), pregunta de «tarjeta azul». Señor Buonanno, con todo respeto, yo no sé si usted ha conocido terroristas, yo sí. Yo he vivido trece años con escolta policial y mi hermano fue asesinado por terroristas. Y le aseguro que lo que necesitamos aquí es no montar ningún espectáculo y ser muy, muy eficaces, y para eso tenemos que tener espíritu de colaboración.

Usted ha hablado de una Europa de zombis, desde luego yo no soy una zombi. He venido aquí a trabajar y a aportar todo lo que sé. Porque yo sí sé cómo se fanatizan y cómo se radicalizan los terroristas y he conocido a terroristas de todos los estilos porque he trabajado muchos años en ello. No nos insulte a quienes estamos aquí trabajando, no hace falta que estemos trescientas personas diciendo tonterías, lo que hace falta es que los que estemos digamos cosas sensatas y usted, señor, se ha marcado un golpe de efecto, pero eso no es serio y se lo digo con todo cariño.

 
  
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  Gianluca Buonanno (ENF), Risposta a una domanda "cartellino blu".Bene, io non ce l'avevo, caro collega, con lei, perché chi è qua presente ovviamente non è nella critica che stavo facendo, ci mancherebbe! Però io ce l'ho con quelli che governano quest'Europa, che certamente non verranno mai toccati, che certamente non avranno le mogli che gli toccano il sedere magari qualche islamico come a Colonia, o le stuprano, queste cose non ci sono. Qui non ci sono. Certo, e tutti quelli che applaudono qua, come quattro scimmiette, lì così, ma datevi da fare, andate in giro a lavorare, non stare qua così come dei bamba!

 
  
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  Κωνσταντίνος Παπαδάκης ( NI). Κύριε Πρόεδρε, οι λαοί έχουν πλέον μεγάλη πείρα. Από τους μουτζαχεντίν, τον Osama bin Laden και την al-Qaeda, μέχρι το Ισλαμικό Κράτος, όλοι τους γαλουχήθηκαν από το ΝΑΤΟ, τις Ηνωμένες Πολιτείες, την Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση και τις μοναρχίες του Κόλπου για τα συμφέροντά τους.

Όλοι αυτοί αποτελούν διαχρονικά το βολικό πρόσχημα για ιμπεριαλιστικές επεμβάσεις όπου γης. Σπέρνετε αραβικές ανοίξεις που εξελίσσονται σε βαρυχειμωνιά για τους λαούς και θερίζετε ιμπεριαλιστικές επεμβάσεις που βαφτίζετε αντιτρομοκρατικές εκστρατείες με πολυπλόκαμους μηχανισμούς καταστολής και φακελώματος.

Σκόπιμα η Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση επιχειρεί να τσουβαλιάσει το ριζοσπαστισμό των λαών και τους πρόσφυγες μαζί με την τρομοκρατία για να μπορέσει να ενισχύσει το νομικό της οπλοστάσιο απέναντι στο εργατικό λαϊκό κίνημα και για να βάλει στο γύψο τα εργατικά λαϊκά δικαιώματα και τις ελευθερίες. Θέλει να ενοχοποιήσει τον αγώνα για την ανατροπή μιας καπιταλιστικής βαρβαρότητας την οποία η ίδια υπερασπίζεται. Απέναντι στη βάρβαρη αντεργατική επίθεση που προωθούν η Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση και οι κυβερνήσεις, είναι προδιαγεγραμμένο ότι οι λαοί θα ξεσηκωθούν. Σαν το αποφασίσουν, θα δείξουν την δύναμή τους.

 
  
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  Monika Hohlmeier (PPE). Herr Präsident! Zunächst einmal etwas zur Geschäftsordnung. Ich würde den Präsidenten des Hauses bitten, dass man Abgeordnete, wenn sie Beleidigungen gegen die Regierungschefs unserer Länder und ihre Frauen aussprechen und gegen sie aufhetzen, und das angeblich im Namen der Menschen, dann darauf hinweist, dass das keine parlamentarische Art und Weise ist, miteinander umzugehen.

Nun zur sachlichen Frage: Terrorismus ist eine der größten Bedrohungen. Und, liebe Kollegin, ich kann mich Ihnen anschließen, ich war zwanzig Jahre lang begleitet von Leibwächtern und unsere Familie bedroht von Terroristen. Aus dem Grund weiß ich ziemlich gut, wie sich Menschen fühlen, die bedroht sind.

Aber dieser Schlag des Terrorismus hat noch einmal eine andere Dimension. Er richtet sich gegen Menschen, und zwar gegen all diejenigen, die nicht dem kruden, wirren und irren Verständnis des IS oder von al-Qaida folgen. Er richtet sich gegen junge Menschen, die Restaurants besuchen, die tanzen gehen, die ein Fußballstadion besuchen oder ein Fest auf einem Platz feiern.

Aus diesem Grund ist es mir ein wichtiges Anliegen, sehr klar zu sagen: Liebe Mitgliedstaaten, der Datenaustausch muss tatsächlich besser werden. Gesetzliche Lücken, die eventuell im gut gemeinten Datenschutz entstanden sind, müssen entsprechend so behoben werden, dass die Daten konsequent ausgetauscht werden können.

Wir müssen auch Eurodac-Daten mit den Täterdaten abgleichen, damit sich Terroristen nicht einfach unter Flüchtlinge mischen können, damit nicht andere wieder sagen können, deswegen müsste die Grenze geschlossen werden. Nein, wenn sich ein Terrorist irgendwo in einem Flugzeug versteckt, dann verbieten wir nicht den Flugverkehr, sondern wir versuchen zu verhindern, dass sie in die Flugzeuge kommen oder sich unter Flüchtlinge mischen können.

Des Weiteren müssen wir auch die Methoden der gegenseitigen Rechts- und Fahndungshilfe und die Möglichkeiten dazu wesentlich beschleunigen und ausbauen. Wir müssen die Straftäter und Gefährder vollständig in europäische Datenbanken übertragen und nicht nur immer teilweise, damit jedes Land weiß, wer Straftäter ist und wer Gefährder ist, und man entsprechend vorgehen kann und die Polizeibehörden unterrichten kann.

Man muss den Polizeibeamten aber den Rücken stärken und ihnen kein Misstrauen aussprechen, denn sie müssen tagtäglich gegen diese Schwerverbrecher kämpfen und brauchen unser Vertrauen, unseren Rückhalt und nicht ständig Belehrung darüber, was sie nur alles falsch machen. Denn es ist leichter, vom Sofa aus die Dinge zu beurteilen, als tatsächlich draußen an der Front zu stehen und handeln müssen.

Wir müssen die neuen Technologien nutzen, und ich bitte die Ratspräsidentschaft, sowohl PNR als auch Europol und die ganzen Fragen, die mit Datenschutz und Datenschutzpaket und -richtlinie zusammenhängen, rasch zu verabschieden.

Ein Punkt ist tatsächlich wichtig: Finanzquellen austrocknen ist ein Baustein und der vielen Bausteinen, den wir angehen müssen. Denn Bekämpfung des Terrorismus funktioniert nur, wenn wir ihm konzertiert und geschlossen und in rechtsstaatlicher und demokratischer Weise etwas entgegenzusetzen haben.

(Die Rednerin ist damit einverstanden, eine Frage nach dem Verfahren der „blauen Karte“ gemäß Artikel 162 Absatz 8 der Geschäftsordnung zu beantworten.)

 
  
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  Ангел Джамбазки (ECR), въпрос, зададен чрез вдигане на синя карта. Уважаема колега, как ще коментирате информацията в медиите, че на немски полицаи, на немски служители по сигурността е било нареждано по политическа линия да прикриват престъпления заради произхода на извършителите им? Говоря за събитията от Новогодишната нощ.

 
  
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  Monika Hohlmeier (PPE), Antwort auf eine Frage nach dem Verfahren der „blauen Karte“. Herr Dzhambazki! Zunächst einmal gilt es, die Straftat aufzudecken und nicht vorrangig erst einmal Nationalitäten festzustellen. Das kann man danach noch tun. Und wenn Nationalitäten im Zusammenhang mit Straftaten eine Rolle spielen, dann fließt das entsprechend mit ein. Aber ich benenne nicht erst die Nationalität und anschließend diskutiere ich über die Straftat, und ich ordne Straftaten auch nicht nur Nationalitäten zu, sondern ich möchte, dass Straftaten geahndet werden. Mein Problem ist, dass es zu viele no-go-areas gibt, dass es zu viele Banlieues gibt, dass es zu viele Molenbeeks gibt und dass es zu viele Zonen gibt, in denen zu wenig eingegriffen wird, wo die Kleinstraftaten gar nicht mehr geahndet werden und sich dadurch eine Kultur entwickelt, die eine Unkultur ist und die Menschenrechte zerstört.

(Die Rednerin ist damit einverstanden, eine Frage nach dem Verfahren der „blauen Karte“ gemäß Artikel 162 Absatz 8 der Geschäftsordnung zu beantworten.)

 
  
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  Zdzisław Krasnodębski (ECR), pytanie zadane przez podniesienie niebieskiej kartki. – Ja chciałem się pani zapytać, jak pani też ocenia fakt, że wydarzenia w Kolonii nie były przez cztery–pięć dni w ogóle prezentowane w mediach, że nie odbyła się nad tym debata publiczna, że nie tylko, jak mówił kolega Dzhambazki, policja dostawała rozkazy zatrzymania informacji, ale że w ogóle niemiecka opinia publiczna, także opinia w całej Europie w związku z tym, nie była informowana o tych faktach? Jak to się ma do problemu, o którym obecnie dyskutujemy – do problemu terroryzmu?

 
  
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  Monika Hohlmeier (PPE), Antwort auf eine Frage nach dem Verfahren der „blauen Karte“. Herr Krasnodębski! Es hat Kritik daran gegeben, dass ein öffentlich-rechtlicher Sender erst zwei Tage später berichtet hat. Die meisten Medien haben bereits relativ prompt danach berichtet. Was relativ schwierig ist, ist, dass wir eine Auseinandersetzung in Deutschland darüber führen – ich sage es ganz ehrlich, in München hat das nicht stattgefunden –, dass es zu solchen Zuständen wie in Köln nicht kommt, wenn man frühzeitig no-go-areas und Kleinstraftaten ausreichend bestraft und verfolgt. Aus diesem Grund gilt es, präventiv konsequent vorzugehen und auch Kleinstraftätern und denjenigen, die sie organisieren, das Handwerk zu legen, denn nur dadurch entstehen die Probleme, und nicht durch andere Dinge.

 
  
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  Péter Niedermüller (S&D). A borzalmas párizsi merényletek óta Európa a terror fenyegetettségében él. A félelem érthető, a veszély nem lebecsülendő. Mégis azt kell mondanom, még ebben a helyzetben is meg kell őrizni a józanságunkat. Ragaszkodnunk kell a liberális demokráciák alapját jelentő szabadsághoz. Nem szabad engednünk a szélsőjobboldali és populista pártoknak, amelyek aljas módon kihasználják az emberek félelmét, riogatnak, félelmet és idegengyűlöletet gerjesztenek. Ki kell mondanunk: nincs olyan terrorveszély, ami feljogosít bárkit is arra, hogy durván megkurtítsa az alapvető jogokat, az állampolgári jogokat. A terrorizmustól való félelem sokszor arra sarkall bennünket, hogy olyan biztonsági intézkedéseket hozzunk, amelyek szembe mennek a liberális demokrácia alapelveivel, saját európai kultúránk alappilléreivel, vívmányaival.

De épp ezt akarják a terroristák, ezt akarja a populista, szélsőjobboldali politika. Lerombolni azt a szabad világot, amit az elmúlt 60 évben felépítettünk. Mi pedig azt mondjuk, a biztonság elválaszthatatlan az alapvető jogok tiszteletben tartásától, a szabadságtól. Éppen ezért világossá kell tenni: még több adat, még tömegesebb megfigyelés nem vezet eredményre. Nem több, hanem az eddiginél jóval hatékonyabb, sokkal inkább együttműködő titkosszolgálati munkára van szükség, és mindenekelőtt közös európai titkosszolgálatra. De ez nem lesz elég! Mindent meg kell tennünk, hogy a bevándorlók második, harmadik generációja ne radikalizálódjon, hanem itt, az európai társadalmakban találja meg a jövőjét. Oktatás és képzés! Befogadás és integráció! Valós esély a boldogulásra! Ezek a terrorizmus elleni harc legfőbb eszközei.

Világossá kell tenni: a társadalmi integráció nem jelent erőszakos kulturális asszimilációt, de azt is, hogy az integrációnak nincs alternatívája. Európát, a szabadságot, a nyitott társadalmat mindig meg fogjuk védeni.

(A felszólaló hozzájárul egy, az eljárási szabályzat 162. cikkének (8) bekezdése értelmében feltett kék kártyás kérdés megválaszolásához).

 
  
  

ΠΡΟΕΔΡΙΑ: ΔΗΜΗΤΡΙΟΣ ΠΑΠΑΔΗΜΟΥΛΗΣ
Αντιπρόεδρος

 
  
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  Marek Jurek (ECR), pytanie zadane przez podniesienie niebieskiej kartki. – Czy Pan nie myśli, że ten język: „populizm”, „ekstremizm” to jest po prostu język wykluczenia? To jest mowa nienawiści wobec milionów Europejczyków, ich demokratycznie wyrażanych poglądów, ich demokratycznie wybieranych przedstawicieli. Czy naprawdę, posługując się dalej tym językiem, są państwo w stanie zbudować jakikolwiek dialog społeczny na temat największego kryzysu, jaki Europa dzisiaj przeżywa, i problemów, które wspólnie musimy rozwiązać?

 
  
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  Péter Niedermüller (S&D), Kékkártyás válasz. Azt gondolom, nagyon világos volt a mai vitában is, hogy itt, parlamenti képviselők közül ki az, aki a terrorizmusról beszél, aki a fenyegetettségről beszél, aki a megelőzésről beszél. És kik azok, akik kihasználják ezt az alkalmat arra, hogy az iszlám, a bevándorlás, a menekültek és a Korán ellen érveljenek. Azt gondolom, ilyen típusú beszédre ebben a parlamentben nincs szükség. A tényekről, a problémákról kell beszélni, és nem félelmet és idegengyűlöletet kelteni.

 
  
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  James Nicholson (ECR). Mr President, can I first of all say that 2015 has brought back to us the serious problems we face with terrorism and especially in Europe. I think we have to face the reality that Europe has a serious problem with its borders, especially the Schengen borders. That has got to be dealt with because nowhere in Europe is completely safe anymore, while we may like to think it is.

Where I come from in Northern Ireland we suffered over four decades of terrorism. I survived an assassination attempt myself and I want to make it very clear in this House that I am not a zombie, and those who talk the way they talked in this debate should, I think, really hang their heads in shame. The victims of terrorism have been forgotten about time and time again. They are not thought about, they are forgotten about, as we go on to the next atrocity, the next crime. That is what cannot be allowed to happen. Can I say above all else we need in Europe good information exchange and cooperation right across borders and between all the police forces in Europe to combat this.

 
  
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  Marielle de Sarnez (ALDE). Monsieur le Président, la menace terroriste est globale, mondiale, intérieure et extérieure. Face à cette menace, nous avons besoin d'unité, de volonté et, surtout, de passer aux actes aujourd'hui – pas demain, pas après-demain, mais aujourd'hui – et d'agir dans quatre directions.

Premièrement, nous devons contrôler, comme toutes les grandes puissances du monde, et surveiller nos frontières de façon effective. Deuxièmement, nous devons rendre l'échange de renseignements obligatoire entre les pays européens. Dans le cas contraire, on raconte des histoires. Troisièmement, nous devons mettre sur les rails une politique de défense commune européenne, car la menace est aux portes de l'Europe. Quatrièmement, nous devons avoir une stratégie en matière de politique étrangère pour nous efforcer de trouver des issues aux conflits, en particulier en Syrie et en Libye.

En conclusion, je vous le dis, si nous pouvons faire tout cela à 28, faisons-le, mais si nous ne pouvons pas agir tous ensemble, décidons alors d'agir à quelques-uns: que quelques pays prennent l'initiative d'avancer. Je souhaite que, de ce point de vue, la France et l'Allemagne retrouvent l'inspiration et la vision qui, aujourd'hui, font cruellement défaut à l'Union européenne.

 
  
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  Cornelia Ernst (GUE/NGL). Herr Präsident! In Pakistan werden bewaffnete Drohnen eingesetzt im Antiterrorkampf, und dabei sind schon eine ganze Menge Zivilisten ums Leben gekommen. In einem Dorf, in dem das passiert ist, hat man mit Kindern gesprochen, die haben gesagt, wir sind richtig froh, wenn die Sonne nicht scheint und alles bedeckt ist, dann kann uns nichts passieren. Wenn man sich überlegt, dass Kinder Angst haben müssen vor manchen Antiterrormaßnahmen, dann stimmt doch da etwas nicht. Was ich sagen will: Unsere Maßnahmen und Mittel gegen den Terrorismus sind oft – nicht immer, aber oft – überhaupt keine Antiterrormaßnahmen, sondern sie sind Abschreckungsmaßnahmen. Und das ist doch das Problem. Sie schrecken doch weniger beispielsweise Da’esh ab, die mittlerweile reichste Mördertruppe der Welt, sondern sie schrecken ganz normale Leute ab, Kinder in diesem Fall.

Ich sage Ihnen: Wir werden kein Jota vorankommen im Antiterrorkampf, kein Jota, wenn wir Feuer ausschließlich mit Feuer bekämpfen. Was wir tun müssen, ist, die Quellen von Terrorismus endlich auszutrocknen. Nicht als eine unter vielen Maßnahmen, sondern als eine vorrangige Maßnahme. Ich rede gar nicht nur von den finanziellen Mitteln und davon, dass wir schon seit langen Jahren zuschauen, dass beispielsweise von Saudi-Arabien der Waffentransport sehr wohl für Da’esh läuft, dass die Türkei lieber die PKK bombardiert als Da’esh.

Wir brauchen wirkliche Konsequenzen aus einer solch desolaten Politik. Und wir müssen etwas tun, dass Menschen sich nicht für die Mitwirkung am Terrorismus stark machen und entscheiden und dass die Bevölkerung nicht Da’esh unterstützt, weil sie sonst von niemandem unterstützt wird. Da liegen die Probleme. Wir brauchen Konfliktlösungsstrategien und Versöhnungsstrategien. Die Einschränkung von Grundrechten trägt eher dazu bei, unsere zivilgesellschaftlichen Kräfte zu schwächen. Darum kann es ja wohl nicht gehen.

 
  
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  Diane James (EFDD). Mr President, let us be blunt about the current situation: the terrorist threat is effectively civil war – incoming individuals joining already internally—based dissidents, targeting key infrastructure to create maximum fear and disruption within our societies.

We must, however, recognise that terrorists now control territory from which to export their violent ideology and have access to millions of dollars to fund their activities. Within the EU, as well as the UK, their best resource is Schengen. Borderless travel facilitates weapons, explosives and unfettered terrorist—ideology exportation as well as people. Second only to Schengen is a banking network that facilitates the financing of terrorism. So, Commission, in your deliberations please face the facts. Isolate by ending Schengen, and starve by taking steps to tackle the financing as two key means of combating this terrorist threat.

 
  
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  Stanislav Polčák (PPE). Pane předsedající, já si myslím, že naše reakce na teroristické útoky musí být v každém případě uvážlivá, ale také rozhodná a důsledná. Apeluji na to, abychom se předtím, než budeme zavádět nové normy do našeho právního systému, přesvědčili, zda již ty současné nejsou dostačující. Například jsem se ptal českého ministra vnitra, jak jsou vyměňovány informace mezi státy, a on mi říkal, že je tam řada problémů. Ostatně několikanásobné a opakované započítávání uprchlíků ze strany agentury Frontex je toho dokladem. Já si myslím, že především nesmíme zůstat nečinní, protože nečinnost nahrává teroristům, kteří jsou nepřáteli demokracie, našich společností, křesťansko-židovských kořenů. Nečinnost a nedůslednost však také nahrává populistům a extrémistům našich společností, které s teroristy pojí odsudky k liberální demokracii, ale i k Evropské unii.

Já jsem stoprocentně přesvědčený, že právě dnes jsme povinni naši unii hodnot obhajovat, jakkoliv je to obtížné a jakkoliv se to může v krátkém časovém horizontu jevit politicky nevýhodné. Nepochybuji, že v delším časovém ohledu tyto naše hodnoty obhájíme, protože nesnášenlivost, předsudky, nenávist a terorismus nikdy svobodného člověka neporazí. Mohou nás podlomit v kolenou, ale naše hodnoty nezlomí, protože jsou v historii ověřené a osvědčené.

Jak se ukázalo, populistické a extrémistické politické síly v Evropě získávají finanční podporu z Ruska. Myslím si, že tento moment bychom neměli přehlížet. Měli bychom být tady v této věci rovněž rozhodní a trochu lituji toho, že jsme nevyužili příležitosti apelovat na Komisi, aby tuto otázku zkoumala. Ostatně toto zkoumání nyní provádí Kongres Spojených států amerických a myslím si, že bychom se i my měli k tomuto vrátit. Hlavním nepřítelem současných hlavních ruských představitelů bohužel není IS, čečenští radikálové či Ukrajinci. Hlavním nepřítelem Ruska je naše společná jednota Evropy.

 
  
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  Christine Revault D'Allonnes Bonnefoy (S&D). Monsieur le Président, face au terrorisme, les États membres ne peuvent plus agir seuls. L'Union doit assurer la coordination et la cohérence des politiques nationales, car c'est la sécurité européenne qui est en jeu. Face au terrorisme, les socialistes et démocrates demandent plus d'Europe.

Plus d'Europe, cela exige un partage systématique des informations entre les services policiers, judiciaires et de renseignement des États membres. Europol, avec son nouveau centre de lutte contre le terrorisme, doit devenir une agence européenne à part entière. Lutter contre le terrorisme, c'est également s'attaquer à son financement. Le renforcement et l'harmonisation des pouvoirs des cellules de renseignements financiers ou encore l'amélioration de l'efficacité du système de gel européen des avoirs terroristes sont autant de mesures sur lesquelles il faut avancer au plus vite.

Enfin, face au recrutement de jeunes Européens, toujours plus nombreux, par l'État islamique, nous devons nous attaquer aux racines du terrorisme, par une politique systémique de prévention de la radicalisation. L'Europe et ses États membres doivent investir davantage de moyens pour développer et financer les mesures préventives, de l'échelon local au niveau européen, à l'école, dans les quartiers, dans les entreprises, mais aussi sur l'internet. Nous avons l'ardente obligation de démontrer, par nos politiques publiques, que nos jeunes – tous nos jeunes – ont leur place dans notre société. Nous devons rappeler avec force nos valeurs communes de respect et de solidarité avec toutes les religions, y compris la religion musulmane, qui composent notre communauté européenne.

 
  
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  Zdzisław Krasnodębski (ECR). Panie Przewodniczący! Chciałem powiedzieć, że się zgadzam z kolegami, którzy mówili o tym, że terroryzm to też jest problem wewnątrzeuropejski. Przypomnę, że obecnie ISIS popierany jest przez co dziesiątego Brytyjczyka i co szóstego mieszkańca Francji. Badania pokazują także, że mniejsze jest poparcie dla ISIS w krajach arabskich niż w krajach europejskich. Wśród państw wysyłających największą liczbę wojowników ISIS per capita, obok takich państw jak Arabia Saudyjska, Uzbekistan, Albania, przodują Belgia, w której znajduje się również Parlament Europejski, instytucje europejskie, Szwecja, Francja – i to powinno być przedmiotem naszej refleksji. Przede wszystkim fakt, że głównym celem rekrutacji przez terrorystów stają się młodzi ludzie pozbawieni poczucia tożsamości, zakorzenienia i wzorców społecznych, dzieci imigrantów, często w drugim, trzecim pokoleniu, ludzie rozdarci między ojczyzną przodków a krajem zamieszkania, w żadnym z nich nie czujący się u siebie, a także dzieci z rozbitych domów, patchworkowych rodzin poszukujący poczucia stabilności, postaw nieobciążonych relatywizmem i dlatego ulegających urokowi radykalnych ideologii bądź fundamentalizmowi religijnemu.

(Mówca zgodził się odpowiedzieć na pytanie zadane przez podniesienie niebieskiej kartki (art. 162 ust. 8 Regulaminu))

 
  
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  Hilde Vautmans (ALDE), "blauwe kaart"-vraag. Wel, collega, u verwijst naar België, naar mijn land, als zouden de foreign fighters vooral vanuit ons land gestuurd worden. Ik betwist natuurlijk niet dat er wel degelijk foreign fighters zijn die vanuit ons land vertrekken, en wij zetten daar ook echt op in.

Maar ik zou heel graag van u vernemen wat over heel Europa - want het probleem doet zich voor in alle Europese landen - uw actiepunten zijn om te verhinderen dat jongeren die in Europa opgroeien inderdaad daarginds een oorlog gaan voeren die niet de hunne is.

 
  
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  Zdzisław Krasnodębski (ECR), odpowiedź na pytanie zadane przez podniesienie niebieskiej kartki. Najpierw bym się zapoznał się z problemem i w związku z tym mam dla Pani propozycję i także dla naszych kolegów. Spędzamy wiele godzin w Parlamencie Europejskim, a tuż obok niedaleko parę kilometrów dalej w dzielnicy znajdującej się w pobliżu Parlamentu Europejskiego zbierają się ludzie, którzy potem planują zamachy. Może byśmy zrobili kiedyś wycieczkę etnograficzną i poszli tam wszyscy razem i zobaczyli realność Europy i wtedy wrócilibyśmy do realności, bo powrót do realności jest podstawą tego, żeby postawić właściwą diagnozę i znaleźć rozwiązania problemu, o którym Pani mówi.

 
  
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  Hilde Vautmans (ALDE). Ik wil heel graag de collega uitnodigen om met mij mee te gaan naar Mechelen, waar wij een liberale burgemeester hebben. Vanuit Mechelen is geen enkele foreign fighter vertrokken. Daar zetten we in op integratie om mensen in de gemeenschap op te nemen, zodat ze zich hier betrokken voelen!

Dus, collega, ik nodig u heel graag uit om volgende week met mij mee te rijden om een bezoek te brengen aan de stad Mechelen, waar ze de strijd degelijk hebben gevoerd. En voor de collega's die mee willen, jullie zijn uiteraard ook van harte welkom!

 
  
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  Ana Gomes (S&D). Não temos sabido proteger os cidadãos, os nossos cidadãos, face à ameaça terrorista e à criminalidade organizada conexa, que não nos apanha de surpresa e nos impõe que trabalhemos coordenadamente a nível europeu, porque, sozinho, nenhum país conseguirá vencê-la.

Estamos a pagar o preço da descoordenação na Síria, no Iraque, na Líbia e na questão palestina. Precisamos trabalhar pela paz e pela segurança na vizinhança e de atacar as fontes de financiamento do terrorismo, como o tráfico de seres humanos, de armas, de petróleo e de drogas, incluindo por governos que se dizem nossos aliados, como a Arábia Saudita, a Turquia e o Catar. Precisamos de nos coordenar no apoio às forças que resistem no terreno, como os pesmerga, e prestar ajuda mais eficaz às populações deslocadas e refugiadas para que reocupem e reconstruam zonas libertadas, como o Sinjar, pois não é com muros e com o fim de Schengen, o encerramento de fronteiras, que impediremos de vir quem foge da barbaridade.

Internamente sofremos de desunião e desconfiança; resistimos a partilhar informação contra o terrorismo e a agir contra o crime organizado; falhamos em criar um efetivo PNR europeu, em contrariar a propaganda recrutadora; e, com as políticas neoliberais que criam mais desemprego e guetos, facilitamos mesmo a campanha radicalizadora dos próprios jovens europeus que se juntam às fileiras do chamado Estado Islâmico, dentro das nossas fronteiras e até dentro das nossas prisões.

Além do desconcerto que exibimos, ajudamos terroristas com a vaga de xenofobia, que agora miseravelmente ataca os refugiados que fogem ao terrorismo e à guerra e que temos a obrigação de acolher. Não precisamos de inventar nada; precisamos de vontade política e de sentido de interesse estratégico num mundo regulado pelo rule of law e pelos direitos humanos. As soluções estão numa articulação inteligente e coerente das nossas políticas de segurança interna e externa. Precisamos é que os nossos governos trabalhem em conjunto. Este é um problema europeu e a principal arma de que precisamos é de união, de União Europeia.

(A oradora aceita responder a uma pergunta segundo o procedimento “cartão azul” nos termos do artigo 162.º, n.º 8, do Regimento)

 
  
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  Marita Ulvskog (S&D), fråga ("blått kort"). Jag vill gärna höra vad Ana Gomes säger om det som vi diskuterade också under förra talarens inlägg, där herr Krasnodębski nämnde just t.ex. Sverige och att vi har många unga människor som har åkt för att kämpa tillsammans med ISIS.

Integration och att man har en bättre och jämnare fördelning av flyktingarna måste väl ändå vara grunden för detta. Om Krasnodębskis hemland tog emot fler unga män och kvinnor som flyr, så kanske det skulle bli mindre av den här typen av aktiviteter. Vad säger ni fru Gomes?

 
  
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  Ana Gomes (S&D), blue-card answer. Well, my country has actually volunteered to accept up to 5 000 refugees in these coming months, but they are not coming because the system is not working. But those who have come are, actually, indeed properly supported to be socially integrated. Having access to work, for instance, is very important apart from other aspects – to actually work according to the rules in our society. Social inclusion is the most important thing, and all the economically liberal policies that have only been fostering social exclusion and discrimination, in particular in communities of migrants, is actually what has been helping the terrorists recruit young people within our borders and to fight both abroad and against us.

 
  
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  Ulrike Trebesius (ECR). Herr Präsident! Allein in Deutschland hat sich die Zahl der Terrorverfahren im letzten Jahr verdreifacht.

Darunter sind immer mehr Verfahren gegen IS-Unterstützer. Menschen, die oft auch im Strom der Flüchtlinge zu uns gekommen sind. Leider funktioniert die Vernetzung der Behörden nicht, wofür ich Ihnen ein Beispiel nennen möchte: Am 7. Januar 2016, dem Jahrestag des Attentats von Charlie Hebdo, wurde in Paris ein Mann erschossen, der mit dem Schlachterbeil zwei Polizisten angegriffen hatte. Dieser Mann wurde später als Tarek Belgacem identifiziert.

Der Marokkaner Belgacem hatte sich in Deutschland aufgehalten und hier mindestens sieben verschiedene Identitäten angenommen: So war er als Syrer, als Georgier und als Tunesier registriert. In Deutschland und in anderen europäischen Ländern hat er eine ganze Reihe von Straftaten begangen. Bekannt geworden sind: Drogenhandel, Sozialhilfemissbrauch, Beleidigung, Drohung, Diebstahl, Verstoß gegen das Waffengesetz, Körperverletzung, Raub und sexuelle Belästigung. Die Wände seiner Wohnung waren mit IS-Symbolen verziert.

Trotz dieser Vergehen konnte sich Belgacem offensichtlich frei in ganz Europa bewegen. Mein Land Deutschland ist ein Unsicherheitsfaktor bei der europäischen Terrorbekämpfung.

 
  
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  Josef Weidenholzer (S&D). Herr Präsident! Diese terroristischen Anschläge werden immer häufiger, bedrohlicher, dreister und sie sind wirkungsvoll, weil sie Grundfundamente unserer freiheitlichen Ordnung destabilisieren und weil sie auch in der weiteren Folge den Bestand dieser Union gefährden.

Der Kampf gegen diese terroristische Bedrohung ist notwendig und wichtig und verdient unsere ganze Aufmerksamkeit. Aber diese terroristische Bedrohung hat den Namen: Da'esh-IS. Wir sollten darüber reden. Wir sollten nicht diese Diskussion für Polemiken missbrauchen. Viele Menschen haben auch den Eindruck, dass viel geredet, aber nicht effizient gehandelt wird.

In diesem Haus haben wir zwei Maßnahmen beschlossen und heftig diskutiert. Das eine war der Bericht zur Deradikalisierung, das andere die EU-PNR. Ich hege immer noch Zweifel, ob das wirklich nicht auch dazu führt, dass der Heuhaufen an Informationen größer wird – aber wir haben diese Maßnahmen beschlossen. Was wir jetzt brauchen, sind kurzfristige Aktionen. Wir sollten uns überlegen, ob diese Daten auch wirklich gut analysiert sind, ob sie gut aufbereitet werden. Wir brauchen mehr und besser geschultes Personal bei der Polizei. Wir sollten uns auch überlegen, warum die nationalen Geheimdienste ihre Informationen nach wie vor bei sich behalten, warum sie nicht miteinander kooperieren.

Ich weiß, dass wir Sie nicht verpflichten können, Herr Kommissar, aber vielleicht fallen Ihnen Methoden ein, die Geheimdienste dazu zu bringen, ihr Wissen, das sie reichlich haben, auch miteinander zu teilen. Das glaube ich, wäre das allerwichtigste, um in der nächsten Zeit Erfolge zu erzielen.

 
  
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  Juan Fernando López Aguilar (S&D). Señor Presidente, sabemos que 2015 ha sido el año de mayor mortandad terrorista de la historia de Europa después de la espantosa masacre en Madrid en el año 2004. Por tanto, la pregunta no es si nos van a volver a golpear, sino dónde y cuándo. Y lo harán contra todos nosotros, la ciudadanía de una civilización regida por el Derecho y de libertades, que es Europa. Que no puede ser sacrificada en el altar de una seguridad nacional descoordinada.

Por tanto, hay que saber usar la cabeza fría con sensatez, como se ha dicho, y no cometer el error de pensar que la extranjería, la inmigración o los refugiados, sin más, son una amenaza contra la seguridad, ni tampoco, por supuesto, que el pánico o el miedo sean una respuesta. No lo son.

El camino correcto es completar Schengen, la Guardia Europea de Fronteras. El camino correcto es una comunidad europea de inteligencia con información compartida. El camino correcto es completar el Derecho penal europeo y una agencia europea de policía. Y la protección de las víctimas del terrorismo. Y, finalmente, tener muy claro que no hay que ceder.

El camino, además, es saber que la yihadización de la exclusión social requiere recuperar el combate europeo contra la marginación y contra la desigualdad y el diálogo con las comunidades que se han visto afectadas especialmente por esa austeridad recesiva, que ha extremado y exasperado las desigualdades en Europa, y que está detrás, es el trasfondo, de esta incrementada marginalización de la exclusión que ha llevado a muchos europeos, nacidos en Europa y residentes europeos, a cometer atentados terroristas en Europa.

 
  
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  Andrejs Mamikins (S&D). Mr President, just several decades ago different parts of Europe were plagued by internal conflicts with various nationalistic groups. Those times are over. The advent of the globalisation age has removed any meaningful boundaries. Terrorism is no longer linked to any borders; it is both global and much more radical than even before. Like in Northern Ireland or Spain, there can be no peaceful resolution. The only reasonable way to combat the current wave of radicalisation in Europe, including active propaganda and ISIS membership, is a complete overhaul of the existing policies on integration, judiciary and prosecution, and security of financial transactions, as well as counter-propaganda in the case of those susceptible to such radicalisation, not to mention a more assertive foreign policy in relation to those who openly or allegedly contribute to these processes. I mean Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar or anywhere else. I am not proposing to forsake and abolish our core values. Our first and foremost objective is to guarantee the safety of our citizens, not endanger them even more.

 
  
 

Διαδικασία «Catch-the-Eye»

 
  
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  Franc Bogovič (PPE). Najprej moramo zelo jasno vedeti in povedati, kaj so ključni razlogi za razmah terorizma.

Prvič, veliko mladih Evropejcev je razočaranih, brez prihodnosti. Nastajajo velika geta v evropskih metropolah, ki so prava gojišča terorističnih celic. Od tam odhajajo mladi Evropejci tako v Islamsko državo, kakor tudi izvajajo teroristične napade po Evropi.

Odstranitev diktatorskih režimov v Libiji, Iraku, dogodki v Siriji in Afganistanu imajo za posledico nastanek teroristične Islamske države, velikega toka migrantov in beguncev, ki so destabilizirali Evropo.

Islamska država in tudi nekatere arabske države financirajo terorizem in so najavile islamizacijo Evrope in teroristične napade na Evropo.

Terorizem nima meja, zato mora priti do popolne izmenjave podatkov in popolnega sodelovanja varnostnih služb in skupen boj proti terorizmu. Odpraviti je potrebno vzroke za nastanek terorizma.

Pri ukrepanjih, spoštovana Komisija, pa bodite sorazmerni in ne vznemirjajte poštenih Evropejcev, kot jih vznemirjate s sedanjo direktivo o orožju, kjer ste se lotili predvsem tistih, ki imajo legalno orožje, pozabili pa na to, da je nelegalna trgovina pravi izvor terorizma.

 
  
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  Πρόεδρος. – Όχι, το αίτημα για μπλε κάρτα ήρθε με τη λήξη της ομιλίας, δεν το δέχομαι. Νομίζω ότι οι ευρωβουλευτές μπορούν να καταλαβαίνουν τι λέει ο ομιλητής πριν τελειώσει. Παρακαλώ το αίτημα για μπλε κάρτα να διατυπώνεται έγκαιρα αλλιώς δεν θα το κάνω δεκτό, πολύ περισσότερο που είμαστε στη διαδικασία catch-the-eye.

 
  
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  Maria Grapini (S&D). Domnule președinte, în perioada de criză se probează cel mai bine dacă o organizație, o familie, o uniune rezistă sau nu. Mai mult ca oricând, Uniunea Europeană are nevoie de unitate pentru a asigura siguranța cetățenilor noștri și acest lucru trebuie să fie permanent pe agenda Consiliului și a Comisiei. Reprezentantul Consiliului ne-a spus aici că trebuie ameliorată ura împotriva musulmanilor, dar, în același timp, trebuie să vă propuneți, domnule comisar, și soluții pentru a-i face pe musulmani să înțeleagă condițiile de acceptare în Europa, să ne înțeleagă și să accepte cultura europeană, dacă au ales să trăiască în Europa sau dacă au fost obligați s-o facă datorită conflictelor și problemelor economice. Aici s-a greșit în momentul în care a început criza refugiaților.

Este nevoie de mai multă coerență în comunicare la nivel național și european, mai ales din partea Consiliului. Comisia și Consiliul trebuie să prezinte cetățenilor europeni un plan clar, care să gestioneze problema refugiaților din zonele de conflict și a migranților economici. Nu putem lăsa la voia întâmplării și a interpretării fiecărui cetățean problema refugiaților și nici nu putem muta state întregi în Europa. De aceea, Comisia și Consiliul trebuie să lucreze împreună și să prezinte Parlamentului European, dar și statelor membre un plan de măsuri coerent. Solidaritatea prost gestionată poate submina securitatea.

 
  
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  Νότης Μαριάς ( ECR). Κύριε Πρόεδρε, η καταπολέμηση της τρομοκρατικής απειλής θα γίνει αποτελεσματική μονάχα όταν αναγνωριστεί η αφετηρία της, δηλαδή η προσχώρηση μεγάλων μερίδων του πληθυσμού και ιδιαίτερα των νέων της Μέσης Ανατολής στον φονταμενταλισμό. Ταυτόχρονα, πρέπει να διερευνηθούν σε βάθος τα αίτια αυτού του πολιτικού και κοινωνικού φαινομένου. Επιπλέον, πρέπει να αναγνωριστεί ο τυχοδιωκτισμός με τον οποίο κάποια ευρωπαϊκά κράτη και πρωτίστως η Γαλλία παρεμβαίνουν στρατιωτικά στη Μέση Ανατολή από το 2011.

Τέλος, οι ίδιες οι χώρες της Ευρώπης οφείλουν να αναγνωρίσουν την τεράστια αποτυχία των πολιτικών ένταξης των μουσουλμάνων, να επανακινήσουν τα σχετικά προγράμματα που εγκαταλείφθηκαν για ιδεοληπτικούς λόγους μετά τη δεκαετία του 80 και να απεμπολήσουν τις ρητορικές μίσους από την πολιτική αντιπαράθεση, μέσω των οποίων αυτοεκπληρώνεται η θεωρία της πολιτιστικής και πολιτισμικής σύγκρουσης. Ήρθε η ώρα η Ευρώπη να ακολουθήσει ένα άλλο υπόδειγμα στις διεθνείς και διαπολιτισμικές σχέσεις με τα κράτη της Μέσης Ανατολής και της Βορείου Αφρικής.

 
  
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  António Marinho e Pinto (ALDE). Senhor Presidente, o combate ao terrorismo começa com o combate ao racismo, à xenofobia e ao fanatismo, e prossegue com uma luta incessante pela democracia, pelo Estado de Direito e pelas liberdades individuais, sobretudo pela liberdade de circulação de todos os cidadãos europeus. A Europa em que acredito e por que luto é, como ensina Jorge Steiner, uma Europa que é filha de Atenas e do Iluminismo, mas também filha de Jerusalém e das três religiões reveladas, ou seja, uma Europa culturalmente construída a partir das três religiões de Jerusalém: o cristianismo, o judaísmo e o islamismo.

Durante séculos, a Europa perseguiu e tentou mesmo exterminar muitos dos seus cidadãos, os judeus, e agora, sob o pretexto do combate ao terrorismo, prepara-se para segregar, perseguir e expulsar os muçulmanos.

Senhor Presidente, Senhor Comissário, Senhor Ministro, o combate contra a radicalização tão em voga deve começar pelo combate à intolerância que está perigosamente a desenvolver-se no seio da Europa.

 
  
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  Πρόεδρος. – Κύριε συνάδελφε επειδή έχετε μετάσχει στη συζήτηση και επειδή τώρα εφαρμόζουμε διαδικασία catch-the-eye, θεωρώ ότι δεν είναι σωστό να σας δώσω το λόγο με «γαλάζια κάρτα». Αυτή τη στιγμή δίνεται η δυνατότητα σε ομιλητές που δεν ήταν εγγεγραμμένοι στον κατάλογο να μιλήσουν και αυτοί.

 
  
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  Ruža Tomašić (ECR). Gospodine predsjedniče, 2015. su obilježili teroristički napadi u izvedbi Islamske države i njezinih simpatizera diljem svijeta, a prema posljednjim informacijama iz obavještajne zajednice 2016. nažalost neće biti ništa mirnija.

Na ovakve najave ne treba reagirati panično, ali ni nonšalantno. Europa treba pojačati sigurnosne mjere kako bi zaštitila svoje građane, a naše snage sigurnosti moraju imati otvorene ruke za pravovremeno postupanje prema svima koji šuruju s ekstremistima i teroristima na našem tlu.

Međudržavna suradnja nikad nije bila važnija i moramo joj maksimalno otvoriti put. To znači da nadležne službe država članica trebaju biti u međusobnoj koordinaciji bez da im nadnacionalna tijela s nedefiniranim ovlastima stvaraju šum u komunikacijskom kanalu.

Ovo su trenuci kad moramo biti operativni, brzi i učinkoviti zbog sigurnosti naših građana, a sve je ostalo sporedno. Očekujem da buduće odluke Vijeća i Komisije o ovoj temi budu na tom tragu.

 
  
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  José Inácio Faria (ALDE). Senhor Presidente, os recentes ataques terroristas na Turquia e no Burquina Faso, depois dos perpetrados em 2015, reforçam a evidência não apenas do aumento da ameaça terrorista, mas também do seu carácter transnacional e das suas pretensões universalistas, que exigem uma resposta global e holística de forma a preveni-lo e a combatê-lo.

Na luta contra o terrorismo, a União Europeia tem que não só reforçar a cooperação nas componentes militar e de segurança, mas também na prevenção da radicalização, no fim às fontes de financiamento, bem como no apoio logístico e nos cuidados médico—hospitalares aos combatentes que nas frentes de guerra defendem com as suas próprias vidas os nossos valores e o nosso modelo civilizacional.

Caros Colegas, é por isso uma vergonha ouvir da boca de um soldado pesmerga que os combatentes feridos e a precisarem de cuidados médico-hospitalares na Europa tenham que pagar do seu próprio bolso os tratamentos realizados aqui na Europa, e de que precisam, porque não têm ajuda suficiente da União Europeia.

Senhor Presidente, lanço uma vez mais o apelo para que o combate da União Europeia ao terrorismo não implique o sacrifício dos direitos humanos e que não permita que os refugiados se tornem nas vítimas colaterais dos terroristas que, na realidade, são precisamente os que estão na primeira linha das atrocidades cometidas.

 
  
 

(Λήξη της διαδικασίας «Catch- the-Eye»)

 
  
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  Δημήτρης Αβραμόπουλος, Μέλος της Επιτροπής. Κύριε Πρόεδρε, έλεγα να επωφεληθώ της ευκαιρίας για να θυμηθώ λίγο τα ελληνικά μου - αφού προεδρεύετε - αλλά προτιμώ να μιλήσω στα αγγλικά. Ευχαριστώ γι' αυτό.

Mr President, I am following this debate with great interest, as you will understand, and I want to express from the very beginning my thanks for your full support for our engagement and commitment to fight terrorism. This is a topic that leaves no one indifferent or uninterested and I believe that in this room we really foster a common consciousness beyond the fact that we are committed politically to fight terrorism.

Ms Sargentini, I would like to answer your question which is of great importance, although at the beginning in my introductory remarks I was very clear on that. Terrorist attacks, even the ones that are not organised by a wider network, cost money – money for equipment, for logistics, for falsified documents. I want to assure you that we shall follow that money to help and support the prevention and investigation of terrorist attacks. Soon we shall come back in order to discuss this issue further. I do not think I need to demonstrate or prove once more our commitment, as I said at the beginning, to the fight against terrorism and for the security of our citizens. I think we can all agree that much progress has been made to deliver our European Agenda on Security, but we are of course not there yet as long as the terrorist threat is still out there.

The threat we face is tangible and we need actions that can make a difference at all levels of our societies. We need each other to achieve results – the European Union institutions, Member State governments, national and also local authorities, law enforcement authorities, intelligence services, but also civil society.

I would like to come back to what I said at the beginning. Member States need to trust each other more. They need to share more information between themselves but also with Europol. On a personal basis I can say that I am not happy with their cooperation so far. Unfortunately, most of the Member States, I am sorry to say, keep the best of the information for themselves. Now is the moment to make a step forward.

Our work is not over. The Commission will enhance and redouble its efforts in this area in 2016. Concrete actions are on the horizon, particularly as regards terrorist financing. I count on your support in these efforts. We need to move forward quickly and effectively with European solutions to the common European problem of terrorism. Thank you very much for your attention and once again thanks for your support for our efforts.

 
  
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  Bert Koenders, President-in-Office of the Council. Mr. President, I wanted to thank the Members of the European Parliament for a very interesting debate on terrorism. Let us start by saying that terrorism is a very multifaceted monster that requires a range of answers. There is not one simple answer to the threat of terrorism.

I also fully understand the range of emotions that we have in this Parliament on this issue today. Let us remember first of all the victims and their families and their children, and I take that very seriously. In their honour, let me assure you that the Council very active in ensuring that we cooperate better, I will say something about that in a second. I would also caution against using the issue of terrorism for simple political agendas, be they from one side or from the other. We must be united in the fight against terror and understand that it is a very complex phenomenon – like an octopus – where we have to work on prevention and repression, on law enforcement and sharing, on trust between countries and on fighting Islamic State.

If we do not work on that together and we just make this an element of political agendas then we are not going to move forward. I heard the words ‘political elite’ from – I think – Mr Buonanno. I am here representing not the Dutch Government but the Council, which is based on governments of different political persuasions and this is very difficult for me to hear. The Members here probably make EUR 100 000 per year, I do not know exactly. With all due respect parliamentarians and ministers make money, but if Mr Buonanno is part of the political elite then I am as well, and neither he nor I has a greater right to talk on behalf of the people than anyone else.

Everybody is working, so am I. We are representing our people, we might have different views, but we are not going to have this debate on the basis of simplifications. We cannot accept that, the issue of terror is much too complicated. Let me say as well that if we are cool-headed and dare to analyse what is going on and we cooperate, then together we can move forward. But if we are going to work towards division, that is exactly what the terrorists want from us, namely to see us divide into opposing camps. Terrorism is a strategy that entails inspiring fear in the population and among politicians; if divisions between us appear then we are not going in the right direction.

So let us be cool-headed, let us think through what we have to do. Yes that is prevention, yes that is repression, yes that is working together and yes that is fighting Islamic State. The Commissioner was very right to say this, and this is also what the Council is trying to do. We had a conference 10 days ago in the Netherlands which was based on the anti-ISIS coalition and the global coalition against terrorist fighters. What is the issue there? The issue is that we have to combine trust, share and stop.

We have to trust each other in ensuring that an exchange of information is taking place, and ask why it does not always happen and why should it happen more often. Everybody here has said that. The Council is in agreement with the Members on this.

But it is very understandable to ask why we have to share information. That means, and that was the lesson from last week, cooperation between law enforcement, between intelligence, between civil society and others. It is a working method and we have to improve and increase and strengthen it. The strongest answer our societies can provide is resilience. Resilience and belief in our values, which are based on democracy and the rule of law. I say that not just to applaud these values; they are the only way to fight terror and come up with very, very concrete answers.

Let me say few things on that, because in the end it boils down to implementation. I agree with this. We can have all these debates. The Council is working in different areas to strengthen our cooperation. It is important that we reached an agreement between Parliament and the Council last December on PNR. Like the majority of MEPs in the Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs, the Council is confident that an EU PNR will have a major impact on detecting terrorist suspects. The European Union has already adopted a number of measures for the collection and exchange of personal data between law enforcement authorities, and the transfer and processing of PNR data aims to complement the existing tools.

Organised crime and terrorist activities involve international travel and finance. This includes the smuggling of persons or drugs, or terrorists having access to training camps outside the European Union. PNR data will allow law enforcement authorities to identify persons who were previously not suspected of being involved in organised crime. It was – I think – Ms Hohlmeier who brought up the issue of a link between the agreement on the PNR directive and on the Data Protection Directive. I am aware of these concerns. I share them, President Schulz has passed them on to us, and we have replied to him.

Our two institutions agree on the need to ensure that this vitally important legislation will be adopted and enter into force as soon as possible. You can be sure that the Council has taken and will continue to take all action required to ensure that these files are adopted with all due diligence, while also ensuring that their translation and legal linguistic revision are conducted in such a manner as to render the text as clear, consistent and legally sound as possible. We will ensure that our institutions continue to work as closely as possible – you have my commitment on this – and ensure that no avoidable delay occurs in the conclusion of these crucial dossiers. We have reached agreement on both files: PNR and data protection. Let me assure you we will not backtrack on our commitments.

I said already something about the need to cooperate, whether obligatory or not. In my view, that is not the issue. As we know, under Article 42 of the TEU, national security remains the sole responsibility of each Member State. There is, accordingly, no legal basis for an EU intelligence agency. This does not mean that there is not an enormous need for this element of trust, share and stop. We are in the process of working in many different Council formations that sit on this.

Let me also assure those who are worried about this that we are constantly talking about balance. I say to anybody who wants to have a simple agenda between privacy and repression, between thinking that it is all about the Qur’an or it has nothing to do with fundamentalist tendencies and that the issue is Islam: ‘Go ahead, it will not solve the issue’. The Council is working on a combined effort on prevention and repression. It is important that we take very seriously the issues of rule of law and of our values because that is exactly what is being attacked. The way we fight this awful scourge has to be within the limits. That is why we constantly continue to work on this issue.

Yes, that means also prevention. That is not a soft policy. That is a very hard policy. It is ensuring that people do not get radicalised, and that also has to do with economic opportunity and discrimination. I say, not as a defence, that if we want to be effective we have to look at the whole chain of radicalisation and de-radicalisation. The closing of frontiers is not an answer to that. The same person who said we have to close the frontiers said that we need more international cooperation with the rest of the world right now. Let us do that.

Our meeting last week included countries that are aware of this issue. We also have to strengthen our cooperation in the intelligence field, with countries in North Africa and elsewhere. In respect of the timetable for our cooperation it is important we have these debates regularly, and this is the case. It is also necessary that we as an executive be controlled by our national parliaments but also with a debate here.

We are faced with an enemy that has a great capacity to move around, and this has nothing to do with borders as we are talking about moving within our societies and internationally. We therefore have to step up our efforts. We have to share in the trust and to make sure that the divisions we have – which are legitimate – do not simultaneously lead to a lack of effectiveness against the threat of terror.

 
  
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  Πρόεδρος. – Η συζήτηση έληξε.

 
  
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  Rachida Dati (PPE), par écrit. Plusieurs propositions ont été annoncées par la Commission. La mise en place d'un corps de gardes-frontières européens, une réforme ciblée du code Schengen pour des contrôles systématiques aux frontières extérieures de l'Union, un élargissement d'ECRIS aux casiers judiciaires des non-Européens. Ces propositions, je les réclame maintenant depuis longtemps. Mais pourquoi tant de temps et de vies perdues avant qu'elles ne soient faites? Dans mon rapport sur la prévention de la radicalisation, voté le 25 novembre, j'ai porté de nombreuses autres mesures. Je souhaite que la Commission et les États membres s'engagent à la mise en place d'une responsabilité pénale des géants du Net qui ne coopèrent pas face à la diffusion massive de contenus de propagande terroriste. Des mesures fortes en matière de lutte contre le financement du terrorisme doivent également être mises en place. La lumière doit être faite sur la responsabilité de certains pays du Golfe dans le financement du terrorisme. Nous avons également besoin d'un TFTS européen, un système de détection des circuits de financement du terrorisme, sur le modèle de l'accord que nous avons avec les États-Unis. Ce qu'il nous a manqué jusqu'à présent, c'est de la volonté politique! N'abandonnons pas les citoyens européens aux terroristes et agissons!

 
Aviso jurídico