Volledig verslag van de vergaderingen

Woensdag 27 maart 2019 - Straatsburg

24. Interoperabiliteit tussen de EU-informatiesystemen op het gebied van politiële en justitiële samenwerking, asiel en migratie - Interoperabiliteit tussen de EU-informatiesystemen op het gebied van grenzen en visa (debat)

  Presidente. – L'ordine del giorno reca, in discussione congiunta,

– la relazione di Nuno Melo, a nome della commissione per le libertà civili, la giustizia e gli affari interni, sulla proposta modificata di regolamento del Parlamento europeo e del Consiglio che istituisce un quadro per l'interoperabilità tra i sistemi di informazione dell'UE (cooperazione giudiziaria e di polizia, asilo e migrazione) e che modifica il [regolamento (UE) 2018/XX [regolamento Eurodac],] il regolamento (UE) 2018/XX [regolamento sul SIS nel settore dell'attività di contrasto], il regolamento (UE) 2018/XX [regolamento ECRIS-TCN] e il regolamento (UE) 2018/XX [regolamento eu-LISA] (COM(2018)0480 - C8-0293/2018 - 2017/0352(COD)) (A8-0348/2018), e

– Jeroen Lenaers a nome della commissione per le libertà civili, la giustizia e gli affari interni, sulla proposta modificata di regolamento del Parlamento europeo e del Consiglio che istituisce un quadro per l'interoperabilità tra i sistemi di informazione dell'UE (frontiere e visti) e che modifica la decisione 2004/512/CE del Consiglio, il regolamento (CE) n. 767/2008, la decisione 2008/633/GAI del Consiglio, il regolamento (UE) 2016/399, il regolamento (UE) 2017/2226, il regolamento (UE) 2018/XX [regolamento ETIAS], il regolamento (UE) 2018/XX [regolamento sul SIS nel settore delle verifiche di frontiera] e il regolamento (UE) 2018/XX [regolamento eu-LISA] (COM(2018)0478 - C8-0294/2018 - 2017/0351(COD)) (A8-0347/2018)

  Jeroen Lenaers, Rapporteur. – Voorzitter, met deze wetgeving zetten we een belangrijke stap om Europa veiliger te maken, om beschikbare informatie over criminelen en terroristen sneller en vollediger op de juiste plek te krijgen, om onze grenzen beter en efficiënter te controleren en om ervoor te zorgen dat criminelen of mensen met kwaad in de zin niet langer gebruik kunnen maken van valse identiteiten en daar mee weg kunnen komen. Hier in Straatsburg op slechts een paar kilometer van deze vergaderzaal in de bunker van het gebouw van het eu-LISA-agentschap staan de servers waar onze Europese informatiesystemen op het gebied van veiligheid en grensbeheer op draaien. Die servers staan daar in die bunker op slechts een aantal centimeter van elkaar af en toch kunnen en mogen ze tot de dag van vandaag niet met elkaar communiceren. Het gebrek aan communicatie tussen die Europese informatiesystemen zorgt voor blinde vlekken in onze veiligheidsstructuur, en aan die blinde vlekken maken we met dit voorstel eindelijk een einde.

Via het Europese zoekportaal kunnen politieagenten, grenswachten en douanebeambten met één druk op de knop meteen uit alle informatiesystemen de juiste informatie opvragen die ze nodig hebben om hun werk te doen. Via de biometrische matchingservice kunnen we zoeken met onze vingerafdrukken, met gezichtscans. Juist daardoor wordt het veel gemakkelijker om met één systeem ons werk te doen in plaats van met al die verschillende systemen. Het is goedkoper, het is veiliger, het is duidelijker en het is beter: niet iedere keer weer opnieuw het wiel uitvinden, maar juist efficiënter en doelmatiger onze energie inzetten.

Via het gemeenschappelijke identiteitsregister creëren we een centrale opslagplaats voor biografische en biometrische gegevens van mensen die niet uit Europa komen. Bestaande gegevens worden slimmer opgeslagen en daarmee kunnen we veel makkelijker dingen doen. We kunnen gemakkelijker de kwaliteit van onze data controleren. We kunnen gemakkelijker de toegang van rechtshandhavingsinstanties tot deze informatie stroomlijnen en we kunnen gemakkelijker op straat mensen zonder papieren controleren en identificeren. En tot slot, het laatste onderdeel: de detector van meerdere identiteiten. We hebben veel gezien in de afgelopen jaren dat criminelen met soms wel 20 verschillende identiteiten geregistreerd staan in onze datasystemen. We hebben het met Anis Amri gezien: de terrorist die onder 14 verschillende identiteiten geregistreerd stond. Met deze componenten kunnen we dat in de toekomst voorkomen. Dit Parlement heeft vanaf het begin af aan gezegd dat we alleen met een voorstel als dit kunnen instemmen als ook de grondrechten van burgers goed gewaarborgd worden. Goed veiligheidsbeleid moet hand in hand gaan met het waarborgen van de grondrechten van onze burgers en dat hebben we gedaan. We gaan niet meer gegevens verzamelen maar gaan de gegevens die we al hebben veel beter gebruiken. We houden de strenge toegangseisen van de onderliggende systemen intact. We hebben een nieuwe webapplicatie die burgers helpt om hun rechten te waarborgen.

Deze nieuwe verordening is ook een nieuwe manier van werken waar we de komende jaren de vruchten van gaan plukken. En ik wil dan ook commissarissen Avramopoulos en King bedanken voor hun inzet in dit dossier. Ik wil mijn corapporteur Nuno Melo bedanken. Ik wil alle collega's bedanken, maar vooral ook de medewerkers, adviseurs, die ons gedurende de afgelopen tijd allemaal geholpen hebben om dit tot een goed einde te brengen. Met interoperabiliteit – en daar ben ik van overtuigd – zorgen we echt voor een veiliger Europa, en dat doen we door de mensen die over onze veiligheid waken, de politieman op straat, de grenswachten op de luchthaven, de douaneambtenaren bij de grensovergang – om die mensen de juiste instrumenten te geven om hun werk te doen.

  Nuno Melo, Relator. – Senhor Presidente, senhores comissários, do que é que nós estamos a falar? Nós estamos a falar do acesso a informação, informação muito relevante, de forma rápida, de forma sistemática e de forma eficiente, mas também controlada, que é fundamental para nós controlarmos as nossas fronteiras externas, para combater a criminalidade, para combater o terrorismo.

Hoje em dia é ainda muito difícil detetar casos, por exemplo de múltiplas identidades, vários tipos de fraudes cometidas com recurso a identidades alheias. Várias autoridades, como o SIS ou o ETIAS, dispõem já de informações. Nós não podemos dizer que as informações não existem. A questão é que estas informações não são partilhadas. Cada entidade funciona barricada, corporativamente, naquela que é a sua organização, naquela que é a sua profissão, e não as partilha porque não há nada também que a obrigue e, na verdade, não há nenhum sistema que esteja, neste momento, criado e que seja suficientemente eficaz.

Foi exatamente com esse propósito que trabalhámos durante muito tempo aqui no Parlamento Europeu - e trabalhámos de forma genuína - de uma forma em que todos deram o seu contributo, relatores-sombra, certamente, o meu correlator, a quem agradeço muito realmente, o deputado Lenaers, aos senhores comissários, temos aqui o Comissário King e o Comissário Avramopoulos, um e outro estiveram presentes nas nossas reuniões e deram respostas muito decisivas, e, principalmente, no plano interinstitucional, o Parlamento e a Comissão Europeia foram capazes de mostrar que, quando têm noção daquilo que é prioritário, podemos dar as melhores respostas em favor dos cidadãos. E assim aconteceu.

Num relatório que era muito técnico, excessivamente técnico, fomos todos capazes de aprender, de nos debruçarmos sobre o que era difícil e hoje podemos garantir que, no momento em que estas soluções forem implementadas, os cidadãos estarão mais seguros do que até ao presente momento.

Eu falava dos casos de múltiplas identidades. Se quiséssemos traduzir isto em dois exemplos apenas num dos atentados cometidos na Alemanha, um dos terroristas tinha requerido asilo recorrendo a catorze identidades diferentes, catorze identidades diferentes! E num outro caso, em França, um dos terroristas, de nacionalidade tunisina, estava registado com sete identidades diferentes. Isto é muito impressionante e é o tipo de exemplo que, quando nós contamos aos nossos concidadãos, não compreendem. Não compreendem, por exemplo, que possa acontecer um atentado em França e informações que existiam na Bélgica não tenham sido transmitidas. Não compreendem que um atentado possa acontecer na Bélgica e informações que se encontravam em França não tinham sido transmitidas. Não muitas vezes por falta de boa vontade, mas por falta deste sistema, deste recurso rápido, expedito, que permite que as autoridades, tendo dúvidas, com segurança e com respeito pela legalidade, protegendo dados, assim pudessem fazer. Isso não pode acontecer mais.

A segurança dos cidadãos, o controlo eficaz das nossas fronteiras, o combate à criminalidade e ao terrorismo têm que ser realmente uma prioridade e se não forem uma prioridade a nossa falta de resposta é medida, infelizmente, mais tarde, no número de vítimas e no mundo de crimes. E nós somos eleitos exatamente para, na medida das nossas possibilidades, fazermos alguma diferença. Temos de ser eficientes neste combate!

Eu tenho um grande orgulho de terminar este mandato tendo sido correlator desta iniciativa e, principalmente, de termos alcançado um resultado tão frutuoso quando tantos, no início, duvidavam. E, por isso, renovo os meus agradecimentos a todos.

  Presidente. – Ringrazio il Commissario King per la sua presenza in Aula stasera.

  Dimitris Avramopoulos, membro della Commissione. – La ringrazio anche io, signor Presidente, grazie molte per l'ospitalità.

Mr President, this debate is a landmark moment for the European Union. It is probably – I say ‘probably’ because there is another issue still waiting – the last time we are debating a security initiative in the plenary and it is also in opportunity to reflect, realising how far we have come in the last five years.

From the first time we debated in plenary – it was late 2014 – we saw eye to eye on the need to change the way Member States cooperated on security. To overcome the security taboos of the past and look at internal security as a collective European issue that can only be addressed with more trust and ever-closer cooperation. In this sense our debate today is an excellent case in point in terms of our progress during these five years.

The interoperability of our information systems for borders, migration and security is an issue which concerns all of us. Interoperability is an exercise in the silo breaking, for – while it might sound technical – it is exactly the step change we need to enhance the security of our citizens in Europe, to protect and better manage our common external borders and better manage migration.

For precisely these reasons, I would like to express my gratitude to the co-rapporteurs, Mr Lenaers and Mr Melo, as well as to all the shadow rapporteurs and their assistants, for realising the importance of this proposal we submitted a bit more than one year ago.

Interoperability is the most effective way to fight fragmentation of efforts, close information gaps and address the risks of terrorists and serious criminals crossing our borders undetected.

This is the European Union at its best, empowering and supporting our border guards and police officers with the right tools to do their job and protect citizens.

Interoperability is also the European Union taking a decisive step towards an effective and genuine security union, managing the parallel and interconnected challenges of migration and security in a comprehensive and holistic way.

All this while making sure, throughout the process and with your great contribution, that fundamental rights will be fully respected, that interoperability is no big brother or a super database and that nothing changes in terms of the access of each official or authority to the underlying data in our information systems.

The involvement of the Fundamental Rights Agency and the European Data Protection Supervisor in the preparatory process of our proposal showed, from day one, that security and privacy are two sides of the same coin, and in the European Union both can and should be ensured.

Dear colleagues, our citizens want more and a stronger Europe when it comes to security. We see this in every public survey and we hear it every time we are out there meeting our citizens. Interoperability can be the game-changer in how we use information to the best possible effect to keep our citizens safe.

In an electoral year, this could not be more important. We are delivering concrete action, responding to our citizens’ top concerns. We can all be justifiably proud of this achievement.

My sincere thanks once again therefore go out to all who made a contribution to our excellent co-rapporteurs, Mr Melo and Mr Lenaers, and of course to my good friend and colleague, Julian King, for his dedication, commitment and determination to lead us all to this successful outcome.

  Julian King, Member of the Commission. – Mr President, well, we could have come up with a better name but interoperability is crucially important for some of the reasons that we have just heard. We started by asking those on the front line how we could help, what they needed. And they replied that there were some issues surrounding the handling, the use of information. In particular, there was a challenge surrounding picking up, identifying people who were using multiple identities. We’ve heard that that led to some horrible terrorist attacks.

One of the reasons that those on the front line felt occasionally frustrated was because of the way that they used our EU-wide databases and the way our EU-wide databases – security and others – interacted or, in some cases, didn’t interact effectively. We replied that we would take steps to try and help them, to help them to do their jobs to keep us safe, to provide police officers and border guards with efficient access to accurate and complete data, making the best possible use of the information that we had in our systems and finding ways to eliminate some of the silos, some of the gaps and some of the blind spots. Indeed, that is what our citizens expected, as Commissioner Avramopoulos has underlined. Many of them, I think, assumed that we can do it already, which is why it’s so important that we’ve been able to get to this point and take this step.

But all of us who have been involved knew from the outset that there were many complex and, indeed, sensitive issues that had to be managed if we were going to make a success of this. That is why I think we can rightly recognise, as all the speakers have done so far, that we got to this point by working effectively together. The Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs (LIBE), indeed across Parliament, at the Council, at the European Data Protection Supervisor and Fundamental Rights Agency, from the very beginning.

For me, this is another positive from the work we’ve done around this subject. We have shown that we can integrate all of those different stakeholders from the very beginning of our work and we’ve shown that we can do effective security policy integrating the input from the Data Supervisor and the Fundamental Rights Agency from the outset. And then again, later on in the process, give them an opportunity to check that the work is effectively respecting those key fundamental rights.

The work that we’ve achieved together will improve the management of the Schengen external border. It will enhance the internal security of all our Member States. Law enforcement and border guards will have easier access to the information that they are entitled to use. They will be better able to determine when someone has been registered with multiple identities, picking up those who are hiding behind multiple identities, but at the same time, facilitating travel for legitimate travellers. In doing all of this, we have been very careful to maintain purpose limitations and safeguard those fundamental rights. Data processing will be limited to what is strictly necessary and proportionate. No new kinds of information will be collected for the purpose of interoperability.

Indeed, if I may say so, the scrutiny that the European Parliament exerted around this file has further clarified the protections and safeguards, for example around the right to information. And that is something, personally, that I very much welcome. The result is a strong piece of legislation that addresses security needs of our Member States, makes use of innovative technologies, but includes safeguards needed to process data in full compliance with our fundamental rights.

I very much enjoyed working – if I can say that on a personal basis – with the rapporteurs, Mr Lenaers, Mr Melo, and indeed with all of their teams. I know it’s not the usual custom here but can I just take two seconds to thank the Commission team as well who worked very, very hard on this, putting in many long hours. Together we got to this result and once the legislation is adopted it will be for all of us to make sure it’s implemented effectively, starting with eu-LISA, an agency which I know enjoys the full support of this House.

We’re going to have to make sure that all of these measures that we have now agreed are put into practice. The innovations that we’ve set out, that you have underlined, will only make a real difference to security on the ground if and when they are fully implemented, collectively at EU level and in each and every Member State. I’m sure that Parliament will want to continue to monitor closely the follow-up to this file and this question of implementation.

For our part, the Commission will provide support as well as funding and, where necessary, we will not hesitate to use our enforcement powers to make sure that the Member States live up to the commitments that they have taken. Again, this agreement is good for the EU, it’s good for the security of all of our citizens. I commend it to this House.

  Емил Радев, от името на групата PPE. – г-н Председател, г-н Комисар Аврамопулус, г-н Комисар Кинг, първо искам да благодаря на съдокладчиците за успешната им работа по доклада.

Терористичните атаки в последните години демонстрираха огромна пробойна в европейската сигурност. Различните правоохранителни служби разполагат с огромно количество информация, но не я обменят, защото не разполагат с необходимите механизми. Да, Европейският съюз е изградил през годините най-различни системи, но всяка една от тях има конкретна цел и информацията в нея се съхранява самостоятелно, без да бъде проверена спрямо информацията в други системи. Това доведе до фрагментиран подход към сигурността.

Затова на дневен ред излезе нуждата да се гарантира т.нар. взаимосвързаност на системите. Казано на по-разбираем език, как различните европейски бази данни - визовата, шенгенската система, системата вход/изход и други, да си говорят помежду си и един полицай или граничар, в процеса на проверка на дадено лице, да види дали за това лице има сигнал в някоя от системите.

Приветствам факта, че с постигнатото споразумение това вече ще бъде реалност. Компетентните власти вече ще могат да извършват пълни проверки за подозрителни лица чрез биографични и биометрични данни, ще могат да засекат наличието на няколко самоличности за дадено лице, ще могат да сверяват наличната информация и по този начин да преценят по-добре дали човекът пред тях представлява заплаха за европейската сигурност.

В същото време, за да не бъдат накърнени правата на невинни хора, защитата на личните данни ще бъде гарантирана, като единствено служители с правомощия за достъп до системите ще могат да извършват конкретни задълбочени проверки на данните.

За да има успех тази взаимосвързаност, отговорността на държавите членки е да подават сигнали и качествена информация в европейските бази данни. Единствено по този начин ще се постигне истински обмен на информацията, така важен за борбата срещу тероризма и нелегалната миграция.

  Miriam Dalli, on behalf of the S&D Group. – Mr President, what we are discussing today was not an easy legislation. My colleague from S&D, Péter Niedermüller, and I worked hard to ensure that any compromise reached safeguarded our citizens’ fundamental rights and also the rights of any persons whose data will be compiled and stored.

What we are dealing with is a large-scale information system, and at no point as S&D were we ready to compromise on the principles of Union law on data protection and the fundamental rights of individual citizens. For us, security was always a priority, but so is data protection. Through our negotiations we always wanted to ensure effective and efficient information exchange between the EU information systems for the professionals on the ground: police officers, border guards, migration officers and consulate staff members. That’s why as S&D we were pushing to include very strong wording on non-discrimination and fundamental rights provisions, together with specific references that will protect our citizens’ privacy and their personal data. That’s why we pushed also for the creation of a web portal that will help citizens whose data is incorrectly stored in one of the EU databases. We pushed for this because we wanted to provide the possibility to people wanting to challenge the data held about them incorrectly, by directing them to the correct authority responsible for rectifying those data.

We need to ensure that in our quest to address security issues, we do not sideline rights that our citizens have worked hard for, including the right to protect fully the data. A balance can and should always be reached.

  Helga Stevens, namens de ECR-Fractie. – Voorzitter, dit wetgevingspakket regelt de interoperabiliteit, oftewel interconnectiviteit van EU-databanken. Zowel bestaande databanken, zoals het veelgebruikte en net hervormde visuminformatiesysteem, als databanken in ontwikkeling komen in aanmerking. Een buitenlander die een visum heeft gekregen of visumvrij naar Europa is gereisd, gezochte criminelen, migranten, veroordeelde personen, enzovoort, zullen allemaal middels een eenvoudige zoekopdracht kunnen worden gevonden. Grenswachters zullen gelijktijdig meerdere databanken kunnen raadplegen, vingerafdrukken met elkaar vergelijken en meerdere identiteiten van eenzelfde persoon kunnen opsporen. Als de politie een buitenlander niet kan identificeren, zal de politie slechts één databank moeten consulteren waarin identiteitsgegevens van buitenlanders zijn opgenomen.

De afgelopen jaren heeft de EU te maken gekregen met een toenemend aantal migranten die op irreguliere wijze de EU binnenkwamen en met een constante bedreiging van de interne veiligheid, getuige de terroristische aanslagen. Door de informatiesystemen aan elkaar te linken worden de Europese grenzen beter bewaakt. Dit verhoogt ook onze veiligheid en bestrijdt irreguliere migratie. N-VA is tevreden met de uiteindelijke tekst, die één loket creëert voor grenswachten en politieagenten om identiteitsdocumenten te verifiëren in verschillende databanken, en stemt overtuigd vóór. Er mag niet worden vergeten dat het de gegevensbescherming en kwaliteit ook ten goede komt nu daaromtrent ook regelingen werden getroffen. Ik hoop daarom dat dit Parlement dit wetgevingspakket met een grote meerderheid aanneemt en dat de lidstaten dit pakket vervolgens snel in praktijk brengen.

  Gérard Deprez, au nom du groupe ALDE. – Monsieur le Président, Messieurs les Commissaires, aujourd’hui c’est jour de fête. Pour un seul débat, nous avons deux commissaires qui se parlent et qui n’écoutent rien, mais enfin on a le plaisir de les avoir. Je ne veux pas gâcher mon plaisir.

S’il y a un dossier que je souhaitais voir aboutir au cours de cette législature, c’est bien celui de l’interopérabilité. Nous avons mis au point et modernisé ces dernières années un certain nombre de systèmes. Je les cite: VIS, ECRIS, SIS, Eurodac, ETIAS et j’en passe. Mais ces systèmes n’ont actuellement aucune connexion entre eux, ce qui affaiblit l’efficacité des données collectées et fait perdre un temps précieux aux utilisateurs qui doivent les consulter.

L’interopérabilité introduit quatre nouveautés que je soutiens. Je soutiens la création du nouveau portail européen de recherche par lequel les policiers sur le terrain et les gardes-frontières pourront vérifier simultanément tous les systèmes d’information liés à la justice, à la sécurité et au contrôle des frontières extérieures, au lieu de devoir les consulter séparément comme c’est le cas actuellement. Je soutiens le détecteur d’identités multiples par lequel les autorités de l’Union européenne seront en mesure de détecter les fraudes à l’identité et grâce auquel les angles morts, dans lesquels des personnes sont enregistrées sous différents noms dans différentes bases de données et échappent ainsi à leur réelle identification, seront évités. Je salue la création du répertoire commun de données d’identité qui facilitera grandement l’identification des ressortissants de pays tiers présents sur le territoire de l’Union. Enfin, je salue la création du service partagé de mise en correspondance des données biométriques.

Je veux rappeler également, parce que c’est important, qu’aucune donnée supplémentaire sur les personnes ne sera collectée en raison de l’interopérabilité et que toutes les règles de protection des données en place pour chaque système continueront de s’appliquer.

En conclusion, je veux féliciter nos deux collègues Jeroen Lenaers et Nuno Melo pour la qualité de leur travail et je les assure du soutien du groupe ALDE lors du vote de ces deux règlements.

Monsieur le Président, si ceci devait être la dernière fois que je prends la parole devant cet hémicycle, je serais heureux de l’avoir fait sur ce dossier.

  Romeo Franz, im Namen der Verts/ALE-Fraktion. – Herr Präsident, liebe Kolleginnen und Kollegen! Die Debatte um die Herstellung von Interoperabilität europäischer Datenbanken ist keine rein technische. Nein, hier geht es um hochpolitische Fragen. Der Europäische Datenschutzbeauftragte hat uns gewarnt: Solch ein Schritt markiert einen Punkt, an dem es kein Zurück mehr gibt. Der Europäische Datenschutzausschuss hat – damals noch als Artikel-29-Datenschutzgruppe – ebenfalls Bedenken geäußert. Doch warum warnen unsere eigenen Experten davor?

Im Datenschutzrecht gibt es das Prinzip der Zweckbindung. Es soll einen Staat verhindern, der alles über uns weiß und diese Informationen zentral zusammenführt. Doch genau so etwas erschaffen wir, wenn wir mit der vorgeschlagenen Interoperabilität das sogenannte CIR einführen. Das CIR ist ein zentrales Identitätsregister, auf das verschiedene Behörden Zugriff haben. Wir schaffen hier eine Art von Monsterdatenbank, in die nicht nur Straftäterinnen und Straftäter fallen, sondern auch unbescholtene Bürgerinnen und Bürger.

Nun hören wir oft das Argument, dass wir ein Problem mit Mehrfachidentitäten haben. Vor allem aus konservativen Kreisen wird dann gerne das Beispiel des Attentäters vom Berliner Weihnachtsmarkt, Anis Amri, genannt. Lassen Sie mich ein für allemal klarstellen: Amri war den Behörden seit Jahren wohlbekannt, er wurde beobachtet, und was genau im Vorfeld dieses Attentats in der Abstimmung der Behörden schiefgelaufen ist, wird nun von einem Untersuchungsausschuss aufgearbeitet. Eine fehlende Verknüpfung seiner Identitäten war aber sicher nicht das Problem.

Ganz davon abgesehen, dass wir hier auf Datenschutz bezogen an einem point of no return stehen, fallen noch Sicherheitsaspekte ins Gewicht. Solch ein zentrales Identitätsregister, das personenbezogene biometrische Daten einer riesigen Anzahl von Personen enthält, ist ein lohnenswertes Ziel für Hacker, die mit einem gezielten Angriff auf das CIR eine Vielzahl der Datenbanken und der damit verbundenen Dienste außer Gefecht setzen könnten, und die Auswirkung eines Datenlecks möchte ich mir gar nicht vorstellen.

Während der Verhandlungen hat sich leider schnell gezeigt, dass es zu einem Ergebnis kommen wird, dem wir nicht zustimmen können. Es liegt hier nahe zu vermuten, dass eine unnötige und teure neue Infrastruktur geschaffen wird, die vor allem denjenigen Unternehmen nutzen wird, die entsprechende Hard- und Software verkaufen. Noch dazu nehmen wir Nachteile im Datenschutz in Kauf und nähern uns dem Ideal eines Überwachungsstaats an. Das können wir als Grüne/EFA-Fraktion nicht mittragen und werden daher gegen das Interoperabilitätspaket stimmen.

  Cornelia Ernst, im Namen der GUE/NGL-Fraktion. – Herr Präsident! Erinnern wir uns doch noch einmal an den Fall Amri, wo die Sicherheitsbehörden kläglich versagt haben, und zwar weniger wegen irgendwelcher Mehrfachidentifizierungen und Mehrfachidentitäten, sondern weil der Verfassungsschutz die Beobachtung von Amri aufgegeben hat. Das war der Punkt!

Und was ist nun passiert? Passiert ist, dass wir statt einem europäischen Suchportal – was wir ja noch irgendwie verstehen könnten, damit man Tatverdächtige und Straftäter schneller identifizieren kann – nun gleich vier Datenbanken aufs Auge gedrückt bekommen haben – neben den genannten das biometrische Vergleichsportal, den gemeinsamen Identitätsspeicher, den Datenspeicher für Mehrfachidentitäten. Wer da noch von technischer Interoperabilität redet, das muss ich mal ganz ehrlich sagen, der lügt einfach! Denn hier geht es darum, die Zweckbegrenzung der angeschlossenen Datenbanken faktisch aufzuheben. Und dazu sagt der EDSB, wie auch mein Vorredner, das ist ein point of no return. Wird einmal die Zweckbestimmung aufgehoben, ist sie im Eimer, dann ist sie weg, um es mal so auszudrücken – und damit auch die Daten der Bürger eine leichte Beute für den Staat, der umfassend überwachen kann.

Fakt ist: Wenn man dann als nächste Datenbank noch Eurodac hinzufügt, dann werden Migration und Kriminalität in einen Topf geworfen. Unterm Strich: Es entsteht ein Riesensuperdatensystem mit Daten von Drittstaatlern, die bei jeder x-beliebigen Identitätsfeststellung auch ohne Straftat praktisch genutzt werden können. Und das ist der Einstieg in biometrische Registrierung und Kontrolle von Menschen, erst von Drittstaatlern und morgen von uns allen. Welcome in der schönen neuen Welt!

  Laura Ferrara, a nome del gruppo EFDD. – Signor Presidente, onorevoli colleghi, questo pacchetto legislativo è di grande importanza: la cooperazione giudiziaria e di polizia, con il miglioramento della condivisione delle informazioni, contribuisce infatti a rafforzare in maniera fondamentale la sicurezza interna dell'Unione europea.

Fin dagli attacchi terroristici di Parigi attendevamo degli interventi volti a colmare le carenze strutturali nell'attuale gestione delle informazioni, rendendo interoperabili gli attuali sistemi informatici, ovvero in grado di scambiare dati e condividere e integrare informazioni.

L'interoperabilità, permettendo una migliore comunicazione tra le banche dati, rappresenterà allora un valido supporto per le autorità nazionali nei settori della sicurezza, delle frontiere e delle procedure di rilascio dei visti.

Facilitare le verifiche e rendere i controlli più efficaci in tutti gli Stati membri consentirà di agevolare l'individuazione di chi rappresenta una minaccia, il contrasto delle frodi di identità, la prevenzione, l'indagine o il perseguimento di reati gravi. Un obiettivo raggiungibile, non solo con il possesso di informazioni pertinenti, ma anche attraverso la loro migliore gestione e condivisione a livello europeo.

Ringrazio dunque i relatori Lenaers e Melo per l'ottimo lavoro svolto.

  Péter Niedermüller (S&D). – Tisztelt Elnök Úr! Mindenekelőtt szeretném megköszönni a jelentéstevőknek a kitűnő együttműködésen alapuló munkájukat elsősorban Jeroen Lenaersnak, akivel én leginkább együtt dolgoztam. Ez a munka nem volt ám mindig egyszerű, mivel az S&D frakció számos jogos fenntartással fogadta a bel- és igazságügyi adatbázisok reformját, az azok közötti átjárhatóság megteremtését. Meggyőződésem ugyanis, hogy ezek a különböző célokra készült adatbázisok nem véletlenül, hanem tudatos adatvédelmi megfontolásokból épültek fel egymástól elkülönítve. Persze, és természetesen értem, hogy a jelenlegi biztonsági kihívások közepette olyan rendszerekre van szükség, amelyek lehetővé teszik a személyi azonossággal való csalások megakadályozását és segítik az egyes hatóságok hatékonyabb munkavégzését. Ugyanakkor – és ezt mindannyian tudjuk – a személyes adatok védelme, megfelelő kezelése rendkívül érzékeny terület, ezért ezeknek a rendszereknek az átalakítása nagyon alapos megfontolást igényel.

Ebben az összefüggésben kell utalnom az Alapjogi Ügynökség és az Európai adatvédelmi biztos fenntartásaira, amelyek a személyazonosság menedzsmentje központosításának szükségességére és az arányosságra vonatkoznak, nem is beszélve az óriási költségekről. Mindemellett nem gondolom, hogy abból lehetne kiindulni, hogy a harmadik országok polgárai eredendően biztonsági kockázatot jelentenek az Európai Unió számára. Ezt túlzásnak tartom és aggasztónak találom azt az ebben a jelentésben is megfigyelhető tendenciát, amely a biztonságra hivatkozva igyekszik korlátozni az alapvető jogokat. Meggyőződésem, hogy olyan Európát kell építenünk, amelyben az alapjogok és a biztonság nem egymással szemben álló, hanem egymást kiegészítő kategóriák. Azt gondolom, végül, hogy a sok vita ellenére összességében elfogadható, támogatható, felelősségteljes kompromisszumokra épülő, alapvető rendeletet hoztuk.

  Bodil Valero (Verts/ALE). – Herr talman! Jag kan villigt erkänna att det här med databaser någonting helt nytt för mig när jag fick det här uppdraget. Jag är migrationsjurist i botten och har därför fått ansvara för den del som handlar om gränser och viseringar.

Jag ser ju självklart på förslaget med mina migrationsjuridiska glasögon. Rent generellt så skulle jag vilja säga att förslaget, som jag ser det, inte är något annat än ännu ett led i trenden att göra allt vi kan för att hindra människor att resa in i Europa. Men mer övervakning och kontroll löser inte problemen med att människor tvingas lämna sina hemländer.

Däremot sätter vi våra egna värderingar, som bland annat bygger på de grundläggande fri- och rättigheterna, ur spel när vi gång efter annan antar lagstiftning som urholkar respekten för mänskliga rättigheter och våra egna grundvärderingar. Migranter fortsätter att komma, men vår rädsla för dem innebär att vi bryter mot både internationella och egna regler för mänskliga rättigheter och dataskydd. Vi likställer migranter med potentiella brottslingar. Trots att syftet med regleringen går helt på tvärs med vad jag tror på så gick vi in i diskussionerna om interoperabilitet med ett väldigt öppet sinne, för i den bästa av världar så skulle det till och med kunna bli bra. Men jag insåg snart att de båda förslagen går långt utöver det jag kan acceptera.

Det rör sig bland annat om den så kallade common identity repository som Romero talade om tidigare, med biometriska och biografisk information – att den ska vara huvuddatabas för alla andra databaser. Det är att gå alldeles för långt: I synnerhet när kommissionen svävade på målet och trots upprepade försök inte lyckades övertyga oss om att behovet finns och att det är nödvändigt och proportionerligt. Det är inte så att ändamålet helgar medlen. Vi har dataskyddsregler till skydd för den personliga integriteten och grundläggande fri- och rättigheter. Jag instämmer med den analys som Romero tidigare gjorde, att det här är en monsterdatabas och den här monsterdatabasen är inte acceptabel, som jag ser det.

  João Pimenta Lopes (GUE/NGL). – Senhor Presidente, estas propostas alargam não só a recolha e a utilização de dados biográficos e biométricos - impondo uma harmonização dos sistemas de informação - como a facilidade com que as autoridades acedem a este conjunto de dados pessoais sem necessitar de autorizações judiciais.

Não se trata de uma opção meramente técnica, é antes uma opção política de fundo que escancara as portas à criação de um sistema de supervigilância à escala da União Europeia.

Propostas que atentam contra o direito à privacidade e à própria liberdade dos cidadãos, alimentam, deliberadamente, a confusão entre migrações, crime e terrorismo. Trata-se, na prática, de impor o princípio da presunção de culpa: todos passam a ser tratados como potenciais criminosos. Hoje nacionais de países terceiros, amanhã cidadãos de Estados—Membros.

Compromete-se a soberania dos Estados impondo um enquadramento supranacional que reforça a inaceitável deriva securitária e a resposta xenófoba e racista às migrações. Este é mais um exemplo de como visões típicas da extrema direita fazem caminho pela mão da direita e social-democracia.

  Diane James (EFDD). – Mr President, well the EU is, as ever, focused on control. What better mechanism, and latest example, but the one we have before us this evening? Along with other colleagues who have already spoken, I’m going to argue that this approach is both misguided and misdirected. Even worse, it is actually cost inefficient. The projected cost of this legislation to the European Union taxpayer is projected to be EUR 460 million. Compare that to the amount spent by the United States of America, with a similar population, on protecting the internal security of its citizens.

This, everybody, is a mere drop in the ocean, and if the European Union is serious, then a serious, detailed and transparent budget must be proposed. Some of you have already highlighted another concern of mine, which is the quality of the data. Establishing a European search portal to centralise biographical and biometric data is wholly dependent on the quality of the information submitted. We have numerous instances of crime perpetrators destroying their identification, removing all or any traceability, and thus any accountability for their actions.

False European Union passports, we know, are on sale on the black market and they exist in various forms on a very large scale. As for data ownership, has anyone in the Commission – or even at Council level – really considered how 500 million European Union citizens feel about their personal data being collated, managed and accessed in this manner? I am hopeful that the European Union does not envisage a police state, but the question has to be posed, does it?

Finally, I will remind you that the European Union’s sacrosanct pillar of human rights is under siege here. This proposed legislation delivers nothing more than EU control where sovereign nation would suffice.

VORSITZ: RAINER WIELAND
Vizepräsident

  Juan Fernando López Aguilar (S&D). – Señor presidente, comisario King, comisario Avramopoulos, les garantizo todo el apoyo, como socialista español y europeo, a cualquier iniciativa —en particular a este Reglamento— que garantice ser más eficaces contra el terrorismo y contra el crimen transnacional a través de las tecnologías de la información.

¿En qué consiste la interoperabilidad? Pues en hacer posible que se pongan en común todas las bases de datos de control de fronteras: el Sistema de Información de Visados, el Sistema de Información de Schengen, Eurodac, pero también las nuevas tecnologías aplicadas al ETIAS, al Sistema de Entradas y Salidas e incluso al intercambio de información sobre antecedentes penales, que llamamos ECRIS.

Pero los socialistas hemos puesto el acento en garantizar que esto sea compatible, en primer lugar, con tres cautelas. La primera, que no sea conducente a un equívoco entre inmigración y amenaza terrorista, porque no son la misma cosa. La segunda, que se garantice el cumplimiento estricto del Reglamento europeo de protección de datos, del Derecho europeo que protege la confidencialidad de los datos personales. Y la tercera, que además sea cumplidora de los principios de proporcionalidad y de necesidad cuando afecta a derechos fundamentales, porque eso es también cumplir el Derecho europeo.

  Julian King, Member of the Commission. – Mr President, thank you to everyone who has spoken, for your engagement on these issues. They obviously raise in some cases deeply-held feelings. We did try and address those issues, as I think has been recognised by, for example, the last speaker, Mr López Aguilar, and earlier by Mr Deprez. We did try and address some of the issues that have been raised by some of the Groups this evening. I think that the outcome, strengthened by the scrutiny and input at the European Parliament, is a good outcome. It is supported in the Council, so it isn’t against the Member States. But most importantly for me, it is strongly supported by those on the front line: the policemen, the border guards and the immigration officers, who we need to help to do their job, which is to keep us safe.

  Jeroen Lenaers, Rapporteur. – Mr President, thank you and let me also thank the Commission, because from the beginning of this process, we’ve had many, many, many hours of discussions, within Parliament and with the Commission, on how exactly this works, what can we do, how can we improve it. I think all the work that we’ve put into this has led to a very good result. I’d also like to thank all the colleagues here who have expressed their support for this. I think most of us support this, most of us have also spoken about the balance between security and fundamental rights. Mr Niedermüller said that they are not competing with each other, but they’re complementary to each other, and I think this is a prime principle that we managed to get into this legislation.

I think it is good news. It is good news if you care about fighting identity fraud. It is good news if you care about making our security policy in the European Union more effective. It is good news if you care about giving our police officers, our border guards, our custom guards, the right instruments to do their jobs and also very helpful with the elections coming up as Mr Avramopoulos also referred to.

If you don’t care about any of these things. If you don’t care about fighting identity fraud and if you don’t care about security, you still have the possibility to vote either for the Greens or the extreme Left.

  Nuno Melo, Relator. – Senhor Presidente, duas notas finais: uma primeira palavra para as autoridades que, nomeadamente policiais, todos os dias arriscam a vida para garantir as nossas liberdades – é para estas autoridades policiais, e outras, que nós temos que dar as melhores respostas sejam Europol, Frontex, eu-LISA, ou, como no meu país, o Serviço de Estrangeiros e Fronteiras, a PSP ou a GNR.

Uma segunda nota de contraditório ao que aqui ouvimos de Verdes e de Comunistas. Argumentam os Verdes que, com este sistema, verificamos criminosos, mas também pessoas que são sérias. Eu diria que é normal, porque se soubéssemos quem eram os criminosos não tínhamos que investigar coisa nenhuma. Exatamente porque estão todos misturados temos que investigar onde seja para que, de entre as pessoas honestas, que felizmente neste mundo são a maioria, consigamos detetar os criminosos e, através disso, evitar, nomeadamente, combates terroristas e um normal fluxo desde as fronteiras externas para dentro da União Europeia.

Já em relação aos Comunistas - que aqui são tão preocupados com estas questões da legalidade - também gostaria de dizer, apesar de se terem ausentado porque parece que o debate não será suficientemente importante, que garanto, com certeza absoluta, que aqui na União Europeia faremos tudo sempre com muito mais legalidade e respeito pelos outros e a proteção de dados do que, por exemplo, os regimes que os comunistas defendem todos os dias sejam na Venezuela, sejam em Cuba, sejam na Coreia do Norte, onde, aí sim, de forma intrusiva, sem respeito pelos Direitos do Homem, seguramente se recolhem todas as informações, se fazem detenções arbitrárias, até por delito de opinião, sendo que, no limite, as pessoas simplesmente desaparecem às mãos do Estado.

Dito isto, a nossa preocupação enquanto eurodeputados é o cumprimento estrito da legalidade e garantir a segurança dos povos.

  Der Präsident. – Die Aussprache ist geschlossen.

Die Abstimmung findet während der nächste Tagung statt.