Róża Thun on democratic changes in Central and Eastern Europe
Polish MEP and former Solidarity activist Róża Thun: "Even arrested I was a free person"
“Even arrested, I was a free person” recalled her memories as a former dissident and Solidarnosc activist, currently MEP, Róża Thun in an exclusive interview to Europarl. Speaking to our website she told us why she does not like to speak about the ‘Fall of the Berlin Wall’ and how Poland has coped with its democratic transition. Read on to discover a truly Polish perspective to democratic changes 20 years ago.
Earlier you said you do not like the denomination ’The Fall of the Berlin Wall’ to describe democratic changes that took place 20 years ago in Central and Eastern Europe. Why?
‘The Fall of the Berlin Wall’ is to my understanding a very symbolic and important German-German event. But what really changed Europe was that we together in Europe managed to dismantle the Iron Curtain, this terrible division of Europe. To me ‘fall’ or ‘collapse’ are verbs that would show our passivity, whereas it did not fall, we dismantled it with an enormous effort, courage, and vision on both sides of this Iron Curtain.
As a former Solidarnosc activist, you were personally involved in making the changes happen before 1989.
You know I am an old woman, and it’s a long story (laughs)…I was involved in the democratic movement as a so called dissident already in the 70s, before Solidarnosc. A moment came in my youth, I was still at University, when together with friends we realized that we are responsible for what is happening around us; that we are not objects, but subjects; i.e. that we want and can decide what is going on. We realized that we can have influence without hoping of course that Europe would change so much within one lifespan and Poland would become a free democratic country and a member of the European Union.
At least, we those groups who opposed to the Communist dictatorship, we were free people, we were normal in this completely abnormal political system. And that was already a luxury, even if we paid a prize. I was a spokesperson of a student organization that was called Student Committee for Solidarity, which had existed even before Solidarnosc, and those milieus backed the trade unions and the bigger movements which arose later.
I must say that even if it was a very difficult time; we were constantly followed by the secret police and frequently arrested, I have very good memories. I was free, even if arrested, I understood and learned a lot, I had wonderful friends, and I live today in a Europe that realised more than my most daring dreams from those times. In addition, I have the luxury to allow myself to admit that I have some, even if very humble, input in this good development.
Looking back 20 years, which one of your expectations were met, and what caused you disappointment?
There are always disappointments and there are groups of people who did not manage. Passing from a closed world to a totally opened free market economy was a huge challenge. Poland goes through constant changes. For the last 20 years everything has changed, not only in domestic but also external politics; for example when you look at the map of Europe all neighbours of Poland changed: to the East we had the Soviet Union that does not exist, to the South we had Czechoslovakia that does not exist and to the West we had GDR, it does not exist.
Our everyday life went through tremendous changes too. The social system in Poland is not developed and rich enough to take care of those who were not able to cope with the changes. So there are some people who are frustrated. But Poles in general are just the opposite of frustrated. Also in the opinion polls, they are happy about their lives, about political decisions like joining the EU. They have very good results in economy - for the time being the best of Europe. They are extremely hard-working and they see the good results of this hard work.
What’s your message for the new generation?
Live in an active way, be involved, when you grow older it will be very important for you to look back and see that you have left some positive traces on Europe. The old generation always says: when we were young, the youth was better. I hate to hear that; if we were better, we would not have allowed those systems to survive so long.
Not only is the next generation good, but they live in blessed times; I would wish them to wake up in the morning, smile to the time in which they live, enjoy it and feel the responsibility for it. Those developments can only continue for the better with their total involvement in the world around them: be it their commune, school, parish, University, region, national or European politics. I wish them to marry, to have children, to live a normal happy life and pass this optimism and responsibility to the next generation.