Пълен протокол на разискванията

Четвъртък, 23 октомври 2008 г. - Страсбург

13.1. Венецуела

  Le Président. - L'ordre du jour appelle le débat sur trois propositions de résolution concernant le Venezuela⁽¹⁾.

  José Ribeiro e Castro, Autor.− Senhor Presidente, Senhora Comissária, caros Colegas: A Venezuela é um grande país e o povo venezuelano um povo com profundos sentimentos e tradições democráticas. Mas, infelizmente, vive desde há anos - e a situação tem-se agravado - uma situação terrível com a violação de direitos fundamentais que, uma vez mais, discutimos nesta Casa e que temos que condenar.

Condenamos o abuso de dados pessoais em listas de perseguição política segundo os manuais do totalitarismo, a "lista Tascon", a "lista Maisanta", a "lista Russián". São inaceitáveis os processos de afastamento de dezenas e dezenas de cidadãos, impedidos de se candidatarem às eleições regionais e municipais que se vão realizar na Venezuela. Inaceitável a expulsão de autoridades em matéria de direitos humanos, como os representantes da ONG "Human Rights Watch", apenas porque fizeram observações pertinentes. E é chocante que o discurso da violência, o discurso de intolerância alimentado a partir do poder, tenha chegado a vitimar jovens.

Nós condenamos e lamentamos o assassinato de um jovem líder estudantil, que morreu vítima deste clima de violência, que é alimentado a partir do poder, e reclamamos o esclarecimento da verdade e a condenação dos responsáveis.

Mas nós, europeus, temos que ser mais activos. Imaginemos que isto se passasse nos nossos países. Nós aceitávamos, nos nossos países, que fossem desqualificados de ir a eleições cidadãos, como está a ocorrer na Venezuela? Então, como é que podemos fechar os olhos? Como é que podemos fechar os olhos e fazer de conta que não se passa nada?

Como é aceitável, por exemplo, a atitude do Governo de Portugal, do meu país infelizmente – tenho vergonha dessa atitude –, que se comporta de cócoras diante do Governo da Venezuela, que tem uma política de lambe-botas e que se tornou ultimamente no salão de visitas do tirano na Europa? Isso é verdadeiramente inaceitável!

E é indispensável que a Comissão e o Conselho sejam mais firmes e mais claros na condenação destas violações dos direitos humanos.

  Ewa Tomaszewska, autorka.−Panie Przewodniczący! Śmierć pana Julio Soto w Maracaibo wymaga dokładnego wyjaśnienia. Składam wyrazy współczucia jego rodzinie. Żądamy dokładnego osądzenia i ukarania sprawców tej zbrodni. Obserwacje i informacje Human Rights Watch zasługują na uwagę, szczególnie wobec swej niezależności od jakichkolwiek subsydiów. Protestujemy przeciw uniemożliwianiu działalności tej organizacji. Oczekujemy pełnego respektowania swobody wyrażania poglądów w mediach i swobody zrzeszania się. Oczekujemy pełnej implementacji praw gwarantujących ochronę kobiet przed przemocą. Oczekujemy takiego przeprowadzenia listopadowych wyborów, by nie tylko do procesu wyborczego, ale też do przebiegu kampanii wyborczej nie było zastrzeżeń. Wenezuela powinna być krajem demokratycznym, w którym możliwe będzie życie w tak swobodnych warunkach, jak w każdym z krajów Unii Europejskiej.

  Renate Weber, author.−Mr President, for several years the situation of the Opposition in Venezuela has been very difficult, and questioning Venezuelan democracy has been legitimate.

But what is happeningat the moment is proof that Venezuela’s democracy and the rule of law are a mockery. To use an administrative measure in order to ban people for 15 years from holding or running for official positions is unacceptable. Only the courts should be allowed to take such decisions, and only after convicting perpetrators of serious crimes.

The perversity of this measure can be easily noticed when it is realised that the vast majority of those banned are from the political Opposition, a practice that most likely will not be used only for the elections this November but may continue for the elections which will follow.

It is not surprising that this political disqualification is happening at a time when human rights advocates who criticise the current government are being expelled from Venezuela and when very suspicious accidents, resulting in the deaths of people who expressed criticisms, are not properly investigated.

The European Parliament must send a firm message to public opinion in Venezuela that political disqualification is an undemocratic practice and is contrary to the very foundation of the rule of law. We must strongly reject the allegations of the Venezuelan Vice-Minister for Europe that the European Parliament refused to vote on this resolution in September because it was seen as a vote against the anti-corruption fight. Such a manoeuvre to manipulate Venezuelan public opinion is undignified for a minister for Europe. We also strongly reject his accusation that what we are doing here constitutes an attack against a sovereign country.

This resolution is the expression of our concern regarding democratic evolution and respect for human rights in a country whose people we highly admire and respect.

  Bernd Posselt, im Namen der PPE-DE-Fraktion.– Herr Präsident! Der brutale Mord an Herrn Soto ist der vorläufige Höhepunkt eines dramatischen Verfalls von Demokratie und Rechtsstaatlichkeit in Venezuela, das eine Zeit lang eine positive Rolle in Lateinamerika gespielt hat.

Doch unter dem jetzigen Regime ist es nicht nur so, dass elementare Menschenrechte mit Füßen getreten werden, sondern ein größenwahnsinniger Diktator versucht sogar, sein unmenschliches Terrorsystem auf den ganzen Kontinent und über diesen Kontinent hinaus sogar nach Europa zu exportieren, wenn man etwa seine Verbindungen nach Weißrussland betrachtet. Aus diesem Grunde ist es dringend notwendig, dass wir ihm in den Arm fallen, zugunsten seiner eigenen Bevölkerung, aber auch zugunsten jener Völker, die er versucht, mit dem Ölreichtum sozusagen zu kaufen oder zu erpressen, um sie seinen ideologischen Vorstellungen gefügig zu machen.

Wenn er hier mit der nationalen Souveränität argumentiert, dann kann ich nur sagen, dass es etwas gibt, was über jeder nationalen Souveränität steht, und das sind die elementaren und universellen Menschenrechte!

  Marios Matsakis, on behalf of the ALDE Group.–Mr President, there is no doubt that Venezuela has had a traumatic history in recent, as well as more distant,times, and endogenous causes are not the only ones to blame. Indeed,exogenous factors are perhaps far more significant in this respect. However, whatever, or whoever, is to blame, it has been mainly the innocent civilian population that has suffered.

The present government, headed by Mr Chávez, obviously has an axe to grind with the USA and its supporters and allies, but that must not lead to such gross violations of the Venezuelan people’s rights as the institution of so-called ‘administrative disqualification’ from elections or the persecution and murder of opposition activists. Mr Chávez must realise that if he wants his country to progress to prosperity, then he must make sure that his government functions strictly within the limits of democracy and respect for human rights.Using violence and persecution against his own people can only lead his country to more national trauma and suffering, and this we must not allow to happen.

  Leopold Józef Rutowicz, w imieniu grupy UEN.– Panie Przewodniczący! Rezolucja w sprawie naruszenia praw człowieka w Wenezueli jest oparta na faktach i jest działaniem zasługującym na pochwałę. Niestety w Wenezueli od wielu lat następuje w społeczeństwie polaryzacja sił politycznych, jak pucz części armii, nietolerancje, rozwarstwienie majątkowe, różnice rasowe, przy czym aktywniejszą jest ekipa prezydenta Chaveza, który w systemie prezydenckim ma możliwości kontroli administracji i wojska. W wyniku tej walki podejmowanych decyzji ustrój społeczny Wenezueli zmierza do kubanizacji - socjalizmu z elementami historyczno-nacjonalistycznymi, czego rezultatem może być zmiana flagi państwowej i hymnu.

Obecnie istniejące zmiany nie wpływają w większym stopniu na poziom życia, gdyż kraj posiada olbrzymie bogactwa naturalne, które ograniczają skutki zmian i umożliwiają podejmowanie populistycznych działań. Sytuacja jest na tyle poważna, że sama rezolucja bez faktycznego wsparcia wszystkich państw regionu nie zahamuje procesu dalszego ograniczenia praw obywateli w tym kraju.

  Pedro Guerreiro, em nome do Grupo GUE/NGL.–Uma vez mais somos confrontados com uma inaceitável e desprezível manobra e operação de ingerência a partir do Parlamento Europeu, que não inocentemente antecede a realização de eleições regionais e municipais na Venezuela. No fundo, o agendamento deste debate e resolução apenas tem como objectivo dar resposta àqueles que alimentam e promovem um já longo e gravíssimo processo de interferência e de tentativa de desestabilização de um Estado democrático e soberano.

O seu objectivo é a promoção descarada da ingerência na situação interna deste país, procurando intrometer-se e impor, por pressão externa, decisões que só ao povo venezuelano compete soberanamentetomar. Em vez de, adulterando os factos e legitimamente dar conspiradoras lições de democracia à Venezuela, o Parlamento Europeu devia era ter agendado um debate sobre a tentativa da União Europeia em impor uma proposta de Tratado Europeu já rejeitada, desrespeitando profundamente a decisão democrática e soberanamente expressa pelos povos francês, holandês e irlandês e evitando que outros povos se pronunciassem por referendo.Em vez de se intrometer no que só ao povo venezuelano cabe decidir, o Parlamento Europeu devia era ter rejeitado a desumana directiva do retorno, que desrespeita e viola direitos humanos dos imigrantes, muitos deles oriundos da América Latina.

O que verdadeiramente incomoda os promotores da presente iniciativa é que o povo venezuelano tem sido um exemplo que incomoda, incomoda os grandes interesses financeiros e económicos que dominam a União Europeia. Um exemplo de afirmação da soberania e independência nacionais, um exemplo de construção de um projecto patriótico de emancipação, de progresso e desenvolvimento, um exemplo de solidariedade anti-imperialista, um exemplo de que vale a pena que um povo lute e que é possível um país e um mundo mais justo, mais democrático e de paz. Aliás, a realidade demonstra que a melhor resposta a esta manobra de ingerência a partir do Parlamento Europeu é o prestígio e o profundo significado que o processo boliviariano tem para os povos da América Latina e do mundo. Por isso, deixem de ter a pretensão que podem dar lições ao mundo.

  Urszula Krupa, w imieniu grupy IND/DEM.– Dzisiejsza debata dotycząca łamania praw człowieka w Wenezueli z powodu nieprzestrzegania zagwarantowanych w konstytucji tego państwa praw obywatelskich i politycznych, przeciwników obecnego rządu, niemożliwości kandydowania w wyborach przedstawicieli opozycji, braku swobody wypowiedzi czy wydalania obserwatorów organów międzynarodowych, stanowi dobrą okazję do przeciwstawienia się deficytowi demokracji, nie tylko w Wenezueli.

Debata jest także okazją do wołania o prawdę w życiu publicznym i politycznym. Dążenie do absolutnej władzy jest pokusą, która dotyka poza prezydentem Wenezueli także przywódców wielu innych krajów i mocarstw dążących do podporządkowania sobie biedniejszych lub inaczej myślących obywateli. Nowolewicowa doktryna Chaveza nazywana chrześcijańskim socjalizmem ma niewiele wspólnego z nauką społeczną kościoła, dlatego przedstawiciele tamtejszego episkopatu krytykują brak demokracji. Jednak czasami nasuwa nam się ewangeliczny cytat o belce i drzazdze w oku.

  Laima Liucija Andrikienė (PPE-DE).- Praėjo dešimt metų, kai Hugo Chaves tapo Venesuelos Prezidentu. 1999 m. Venesuelos konstitucija buvo puiki galimybė įtvirtinti įstatymų viršenybę ir garantuoti žmogaus teises šioje šalyje. Šiandien, deja, turime konstatuoti, kad ši istorinė galimybė neišnaudota. Mes žinome, kad Venesueloje, Prezidento H. Chaveso vadovaujamoje Venesueloje, toleruojama ir skatinama politinių oponentų ir kritikų diskriminacija. Jo valdomoje Venesueloje nebeliko teismų nepriklausomybės, mums žinoma ir profsąjungų bei spaudos situacija šioje šalyje. Mūsų šios dienos rezoliucija – tai dar vienas priminimas H. Chavesui, kad konstitucija negali būti tik popierius, jos nuostatos turi būti įtvirtintos gyvenime.

  Zdzisław Zbigniew Podkański (UEN).- Za chwilę będziemy dyskutowali o jakże dramatycznej, tragicznej sytuacji w Kongo, gdzie mamy setki, tysiące ofiar. Przy tej sytuacji Wenezuela wydaje się mniejszym problemem, bo przecież doszło tutaj do łamania praw wyborczych, do wydalania z kraju. Mamy jednak już pierwszy mord na przywódcy studentów.

Podnoszenie tego tematu już teraz jest bardzo ważne, bo musimy pamiętać, że zawsze zaczyna się od łamania praw demokratycznych. Zawsze zaczyna się od nadużywania siły, kiedy brakuje argumentów, a później prowadzi to do zbrodni. Dlatego ta rezolucja ma sens - jako sygnał, jako upomnienie, że dostrzega się ten niebezpieczny proces, któremu jeszcze można zaradzić i uniknąć ludobójstwa.

  Γεώργιος Τούσσας (GUE/NGL).- Κύριε Πρόεδρε, είναι προφανές ότι παραμονές των εκλογών στη Βενεζουέλα γίνεται μία εμφανώς απαράδεκτη προσπάθεια στις εσωτερικές εξελίξεις αυτής της χώρας με προφανή στόχο να επηρεάσει το εκλογικό αποτέλεσμα.

Η κατάσταση στη Βενεζουέλα αποτελεί για τους εργαζόμενους στην Ευρώπη, και γενικότερα στον κόσμο, μεγάλη και σημαντική νίκη γιατί το τελευταίο χρονικό διάστημα, κατά τις εξελίξεις σ’ αυτή τη χώρα, παρά τις δυσκολίες και τα εμπόδια, παρά τις επεμβάσεις του αμερικάνικου ιμπεριαλισμού, γίνονται θετικά βήματα και επιλύονται προβλήματα των εργαζομένων.

Είναι απαράδεκτη η προσπάθεια που γίνεταικαι, με την ευκαιρία αυτή, θέλουμε να καταγγείλουμε την ενέργεια των πολιτικών δυνάμεων που με αυτό το ψήφισμα επεμβαίνουν στα εσωτερικά της Βενεζουέλας.

Τελειώνω με το εξής: είναι αδιανόητο εφτά βουλευτές σε συνεδρίαση του Ευρωπαϊκού Κοινοβουλίου να παίρνουν την πολιτική ευθύνη για να καταδικάσουν έναν λαό που αγωνίζεται για την ελευθερία του και για να καλύψει τις σύγχρονες ανάγκες του. Είναι αδιαπραγμάτευτο το δικαίωμα των λαών να καθορίζουν το μέλλον τους. Και αυτό πρέπει να το σεβόμαστε όλοι.

  Kathy Sinnott (IND/DEM).- Mr President, when one thinks of democracy, one thinks of human rights. The importance of a voice and a vote at all levels of government is very understandable. For years this has not been the case in Venezuela, a country rife with corruption and currently led by Mr Chávez. Under his government, there is a history of intimidation of Opposition members, cases of Opposition party members being brutally murdered, and defenders of human rights and members of NGOs having been forcibly removed. Additionally, Venezuela presently uses so-called screening lists not only to keep citizens from holding public office, but also depriving them from the right to vote freely for their preferred representatives. What we, as a democratic body, should be seeking from Venezuela is compliance with international standards of democracy,allowing Venezuelan citizens to take advantage of the fundamentals, the freedom to freely and openly criticise those in power and the ability to change the government via election without fear.

  Gerard Batten (IND/DEM).- Mr President, President Chávez has been something of a darling of the Left in Europe. Most notably, in my constituency, he was championed by the former Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone. This allowed his unsavoury image to be somewhat airbrushed with a veneer of spurious respectability. President Chávez has, of course, presided over a diminution of the rights and freedoms of the Venezuelan people. He has undermined political freedom, the rule of law, the independence of the courts, and the freedom of the media and organised labour. Politicians like MrLivingstone who endorse leaders like President Chávez undermine genuine democracy and reveal a great deal about themselves.

  Andris Piebalgs, Member of the Commission.−Mr President, the Commission is following the situation in Venezuela with great interest. The country is in the process of preparing for the regional and local elections which will take place on 23 November.

It is worth noting that in the last few years several democratic electoral processes have taken place in Venezuela. Some of them have been monitored by European Observation Missions which concluded that, in general, they complied with international standards and national legislation. Others have not, as was the case with the last referendum, since we were not invited.

The Commission is aware of the concerns expressed by some of you and also many sectors of Venezuelan society about the constitutionality of the ‘disqualifications’. These are believed by some to be intended to obstruct the full participation of the opposition in the November elections.

The Commission has taken note of the explanation provided on several occasions by the Venezuelan authorities, in relation to the constitutionality of these ‘administrative sanctions’ imposed by the State Controller on a number of civil servants.

We stress the importance of guaranteeing the rights of all citizens who want to participate in the elections, in accordance with the Constitution and the rule of law. We hope that the upcoming elections will strengthen democracy in Venezuela and that the results will reflect the views of the whole of Venezuelan society.

We encourage all actors to engage in the electoral process in a spirit of tolerance, civic-mindedness and respect for pluralism of opinions.

The Commission is also aware of the expulsion of the representatives of Human Rights Watchfrom Venezuela. We have heard the voices which have condemned this decision as a measure which adversely affects the right to freedom of expression and an act demonstrating an intolerant attitude towards criticism. In this context, we stress the importance that the EU attaches to freedom of expression and opinion. Freedom of expression is one of the fundamental human rights, and constitutes the cornerstone of democracy and the rule of law.

I wish to assure Parliament that the Commission will continue to follow closely the developments in Venezuela. The Commission’s commitments to supporting development of democracy and the promotion of human rights will continue to be reflected in our cooperation policies and relations with Venezuela.

  Le Président. - Le débat est clos.

Le vote aura lieu à l'issue de nos débats de l'après-midi.

(1) Voir procès-verbal.