Stenograma dezbaterilor

Miercuri, 19 noiembrie 2008 - Strasbourg

16. Tendinţe demografice - Impact economic şi social (dezbatere)

  La Présidente. - L'ordre du jour appelle les déclarations du Conseil et de la Commission sur les tendances démographiques - Impact économique et social.

  Jean-Pierre Jouyet, président en exercice du Conseil. − Madame la Présidente, chère Martine Roure, comme nous allons être appelés, pour notre plus grand malheur, à passer une partie de la soirée ensemble, j'essaierai, au nom du Conseil et aussi pour M. le commissaire Potočnik, de résumer les propos du Conseil en ce qui concerne les tendances démographiques et leur impact économique et social.

Monsieur le Commissaire, Mesdames et Messieurs les députés, le vieillissement de la population, c'est-à-dire l'augmentation de la part des personnes âgées, est avant tout le résultat de progrès économiques, sociaux et médicaux considérables qui offrent aux Européens la chance de vivre de longues vies dans un confort de sécurité sans précédent dans leur histoire. Mais c'est aussi l'un des défis les plus importants que l'Union devra affronter au cours des prochaines années.

Ce vieillissement est le résultat de quatre facteurs. Le premier, c'est que le nombre d'enfants par femme est faible, avec un niveau de 1,5 enfant en moyenne dans l'Union, bien en dessous du taux de remplacement, légèrement supérieur à 2 – 2,1 –, nécessaire pour stabiliser la taille de la population.

Le second facteur, c'est le déclin de la fécondité dans les décennies récentes, qui a suivi le baby-boom de l'après-guerre et qui cause aujourd'hui, ce baby-boom, un gonflement de la population âgée de 45 à 65 ans.

Après avoir augmenté de huit ans depuis 1960, l'espérance de vie à la naissance – et c'est le troisième facteur – pourrait continuer à s'accroître de cinq années supplémentaires d'ici 2050, voire davantage.

Le dernier facteur, c'est que l'Europe, vous le savez, accueille un flux de migrants de plus en plus important en provenance de pays tiers. Il y a eu, en 2004, 1,8 million d'immigrés, soit un flux plus important en Europe qu'aux États-Unis, relativement à la population totale, mais cette immigration ne compense qu'une partie des effets de la faible fécondité et de l'allongement de l'espérance de vie.

Nous nous trouvons donc dans une situation où le taux de dépendance, c'est-à-dire le nombre de personnes âgées de plus de 65 ans par rapport à celles dont l'âge est compris entre 15 et 64 ans, devrait doubler pour atteindre plus de 50 % d'ici 2050, ce qui fait que l'Union passera de quatre à seulement deux personnes en âge de travailler pour chaque personne âgée de plus de 65 ans.

Le changement démographique que je viens de décrire, compte tenu de ces facteurs, s'accompagne de changements sociaux profonds qui touchent la composition des familles, et tout ceci se traduit par un nombre croissant de personnes âgées vivant seules et de personnes très âgées vivant dans une situation de dépendance.

Comme vous le savez, la plupart de ces questions relèvent de la compétence des États membres. C'est le cas de la politique de la famille, des systèmes de sécurité sociale, en majeure partie de la politique fiscale, et le Conseil, dans ces conditions, est d'avis que la stratégie de Lisbonne et la méthode ouverte de coordination constituent le cadre dans lequel les États membres devraient agir dans ce domaine, la plupart d'entre eux convenant qu'aucune nouvelle structure ne devrait être mise en œuvre.

Pour le Conseil, ce qui paraît véritablement important en termes de lignes directrices, c'est que, au-delà d'une meilleure conciliation entre vie professionnelle et vie privée, il faut parvenir à rééquilibrer les rôles joués par les femmes et les hommes au sein des ménages et avoir une plus grande offre d'infrastructures de qualité pour la prise en charge des enfants et des autres personnes à charge.

Dans une société vieillissante, la contribution des jeunes prend toute son importance. Il faut dès lors intensifier les efforts visant à atteindre les objectifs pour lutter contre le chômage des jeunes et réduire le décrochage scolaire précoce. Investir dans les enfants, c'est la première préoccupation si l'on veut améliorer les perspectives des jeunes.

Il y a lieu de reconnaître également que l'Europe est davantage confrontée à un problème de retraites qu'à un problème de vieillissement, bien que ces tendances lourdes soient inquiétantes et que, sans finances publiques saines, il serait impossible de faire face à toutes les conséquences du vieillissement démographique.

Cela veut dire que nous devons porter une attention extrêmement forte à la viabilité des régimes de retraite et poursuivre les réformes engagées pour leur pérennisation et leur modernisation, conformément d'ailleurs à la stratégie en vigueur au sein de l'Union. Il convient aussi d'encourager les travailleurs âgés à rester au travail, notamment au moyen d'incitations adéquates.

Le Conseil est également pleinement conscient de l'ensemble de ces défis et il a, en ce sens, fait sien un avis du comité de la protection sociale sur les perspectives et les défis du changement démographique en Europe. Le Conseil a également adopté, le 30 mai dernier, des conclusions sur l'importance des politiques adaptées aux besoins des familles, établissant ainsi une série d'initiatives en faveur du soutien aux politiques familiales.

C'est dans ce contexte que s'est tenu, le 18 septembre dernier, à l'initiative de la Présidence française, une réunion informelle des ministres en charge de la famille, qui s'est articulée autour de la garde d'enfants, pour faire en sorte qu'il y ait une meilleure conciliation entre vie familiale et vie professionnelle, et de la protection de l'enfance sur Internet.

En conclusion, le Conseil invite la Commission, en particulier, à considérer le premier forum sur l'avenir démographique européen qui s'est tenu à Bruxelles les 30 et 31 octobre derniers comme le point de départ d'un dialogue structuré et durable, tant dans les États membres qu'entre ces derniers, et à faire en sorte, également, que la Commission puisse apporter son soutien aux enceintes pertinentes pour réfléchir aux meilleures stratégies permettant de répondre aux conséquences de ce changement démographique.

  Janez Potočnik, Member of the Commission. − Madam President, I might take a bit longer but I promise to compensate for that in the second response.

Parliament’s request for a statement on demographic trends from the Council and the Commission comes at the right time. This Friday the Commission services will present their second demography report – in time for the European Demography Forum on 24 and 25 November.

The European Union is going through a major demographic transformation. All the Member States have seen life expectancy rise and fertility rates decline among their populations as a result of scientific, economic and social progress. Today Europeans live longer, healthier lives than their forbears did, and we can expect life expectancy to increase in the future.

This ageing of Europe’s population is no longer an abstract scenario for a distant future. The baby boom began 60 years ago and the first baby boomers are now reaching retirement age. So the European Union’s demographic development has reached a turning point. From now on, the number of those aged 60 and over will rise by two million people every year for the next 25 years.

Meanwhile, the rate of growth of the working age population is falling fast and will stop altogether in about six years. Today there are four persons of working age – between 15 and 64 – for every person aged 65 or over in the 27 Member States. In 2060, the ratio will be two to one.

Some see ageing as a threat and paint a bleak picture of conflict between the generations. But demographic change need not be a threat if we look at the opportunities it holds. Living a longer, healthier life can mean staying active longer. Most of the baby boomers are better educated and better trained than previous cohorts. Today they are still fit and healthy.

I am convinced that demographic change offers the chance of stronger solidarity between the generations. But I do not expect that to come about by itself. Society will have to make better use of the abilities of all generations and give everyone the chance to develop his or her full potential. That means modernising our social policies – in line with the renewed social agenda the Commission adopted in July. The renewed social agenda identified Europe’s ageing society as a priority area for action and recommended a number of policy responses. Our goal is to help the Member States make the most of the possibilities and manage the impact of an ageing society effectively.

The approaches and recommendations set out in the Commission’s 2006 communication ‘The demographic future of Europe: From challenge to opportunity’ continue to be valid. That communication expressed confidence in Europe’s ability to adapt to demographic change. But it also stressed the need to act in five key areas: promoting demographic renewal in Europe, by creating the conditions for our fellow citizens to fulfil their desire to have children, in particular by helping to reconcile work and family and private life; promoting employment in Europe, by ensuring that more and better jobs are created and people can work longer, in order to improve the balance between active and inactive people; promoting a more productive and more dynamic Europe, by optimising skills at all ages; taking in and integrating migrants into Europe, by attracting skilled and unskilled workers from abroad and facilitating their integration in order to alleviate labour shortages; ensuring the sustainability of public finances, by consolidating budgets and reforming social protection systems in order to guarantee adequate social protection and public services in the future.

The Lisbon Strategy already covers the most important of those policy responses, but it focuses less on the long term than the demography debate. That is why the Commission has proposed additional tools in the form of biennial reports on the demographic situation in Europe and two-yearly demography forums.

In the 2008 report the focus will be on the potential of the baby boom cohorts. A growing number of people in their 60s and 70s will probably be willing to continue playing an active part in social and economic life.

The employment rates of older people have risen in recent years, reversing the past trend towards ever earlier retirement. But more needs to be done: when they reach 60, only 40% of men and 30% of women are still in employment. Yet most people in that age group are still fit and capable of contributing to the economy and society. The ageing baby boomers can also make a major contribution to society as informal care-providers and volunteers. Their contribution deserves to be recognised and supported by public policies. It is crucial to ensure that the growing number of older people can lead an independent life for as long as possible.

A key objective of demography forums is to promote mutual learning based on good practice among the Member States. The next European Demography Forum – to take place in Brussels on 24 and 25 November – will focus on family policies and active ageing. It will also provide an opportunity to take stock of how prepared the Member States are for demographic change and to identify the most important opportunities for further action.

Early next year, the Commission will present an update of the implications of demographic change for future public spending, in particular in the area of pensions, health and long-term care, based on Eurostat’s new population projections.

To wind up, I want to emphasise that it is the responsibility of the individual Member States to implement the right policies in the face of demographic change. But demographic change is a challenge we all face together. The Member States can learn a lot from each other’s successes and failures in responding to this demographic change. That is why the Commission encourages a Europe-wide debate on demographic change and is offering a platform for the exchange of experiences and mutual learning.

  John Bowis, on behalf of the PPE-DE Group. – Madam President, the two opening speeches have rightly highlighted longevity as the most significant change in demography. That of course means people are living longer, mainly healthier lives, but in later years they become frail in body or mind.

That has meant an enormous growth in neurodegenerative diseases and the cost of that is vast. Drugs for Parkinson’s disease in many countries cost more than drugs for cancer. UK research predicts that by 2051 there will be an increase of 154% of the numbers of people with dementia.

Long-term care: that comes later now. It used to come in the 70s. Now it comes in your 80s and is increasingly coming in your 90s, but it is coming at an ever greater cost to individuals and families with implications for their savings.

The challenge is to ensure longevity as a reward and not a punishment. We need to rethink our assumptions on ageing, moving from just ‘How do we care?’ to ‘How do we promote healthy later years?’. That means healthier lifestyles earlier in life of course; keeping off tobacco and drugs, sensible drinking, healthy eating, exercise, but also management of stress.

Flexible working lives: time for leisure and families. It means preparing for life after work with flexible retirement ages and the gradual movement into retirement that I have seen in the Netherlands. It means greater social support in new and innovative ways, more domiciliary services so that people can stay in their own homes for longer. Services and devices to match changing needs.

When my mother reached 80 she needed a fax machine for communication. At 90 she needed a stair lift. At 100 she needed stimulation as her hearing and sight and mobility diminished. But the mind inside was good and needed to be protected and stimulated if she was to have a real and full life.

  Jan Andersson, för PSE-gruppen. – Fru talman! Man kan beskriva denna utveckling som dramatisk, att vi blir färre som arbetar och allt fler blir äldre. Samtidigt är det ju en positiv utveckling att vi faktiskt blir friskare längre upp i åldrarna.

Men det ger oss en mängd utmaningar. Jag ska beskriva några av dem. Det föds färre barn idag än tidigare. Samtidigt är det väldigt olika i olika medlemsländer. Vi kan se att i de medlemsländer där man har byggt upp system för att föräldrarna ska kunna förena förvärvsliv med föräldraskap, både männen och kvinnorna i familjen, så har vi en bättre utveckling. Vi måste lära av varandra på detta område.

Trots att vi blir äldre så är den långsiktiga utvecklingen att yrkeslivet blir kortare. Både genom att vi inträder senare, men vi har också – frånsett från de senaste åren, då vi haft en lite mer positiv utveckling – jobbat kortare. Detta måste vi göra något åt i båda ändar för att förlänga arbetslivet och framför allt, innan vi lämnar arbetslivet, hitta flexibla lösningar.

Vi har pratat om ”blåkortet” idag”, men vi måste se till att alla de människor som har kommit till oss från andra delar av världen, som det idag råder stor arbetslöshet bland, integreras och kommer in i arbetslivet, liksom människor med funktionshinder och annat. Allt detta ska vi göra inom Lissabonprocessens ram, så att vi kan möta dessa utmaningar på sikt.

  Marian Harkin, on behalf of the ALDE Group. – Madam President, there are many issues that arise in the context of this evening’s discussion, but I would just like to look at one of them: care and carers.

If we are lucky enough to live long enough, we will most likely need care, and, while there are differences between Member States, the likelihood is that this will largely consist of informal care.

Carers form the foundation of formal care and social care, and are an indispensable part of long-term care provision. If carers are expected to keep providing care – which they are – then their needs must be an inherent part of health and social care policy development.

In this context, I am pleased to see that the DG SANCO website has a short section devoted to carers, and I have no doubt that this came about as a result of the submission the carers’ interest group in Parliament made to DG SANCO on its annual work programme.

However, carers need more than just a mention. We believe it is time to design a new social contract for care that goes way beyond the traditional view of a contract between the state and the individual, and calls for new commitments involving employers, local agencies and communities. Indeed, the recent ECJ judgment on discrimination by association points the way.

Caring cannot be the sole responsibility of the informal carer or, indeed, of the Member State. The informal care system will collapse without proper support, while with an exclusively state-based approach the costs will simply be too high. That is why we need this wider social contract.

Finally, there are approximately 100 million carers across the EU. They are unpaid, undervalued and in many cases inadequately supported. I welcome the mention on DG SANCO’s website, but this is a first step only. By its very extent, this is a European issue and action will have to be coordinated between Member States.

Policy on carers should be part of the work of DG SANCO, and also of DG Employment and Social Affairs.

  Guntars Krasts, UEN grupas vārdā. – Paldies, prezidentes kundze! Eiropas iedzīvotāji noveco! Saglabājoties šīm tendencēm, iedzīvotāju dabiskais pieaugums var kļūt negatīvs. Vairākās dalībvalstīs tā šobrīd jau ir realitāte. Strādājošo skaits pret pensionāriem samazinās visās dalībvalstīs. Zema dzimstība kombinācijā ar garāku dzīves ilgumu un imigrāciju audzē spiedienu uz pensijām, veselības aizsardzību un sociālajiem pakalpojumiem. Taču ir arī dažas dalībvalstis, kam ir izdevies mainīt Eiropas negatīvās demogrāfiskās tendences.

Tajās panākts līdzsvars starp dzīvi un darbu, kas ļauj vecākiem audzināt bērnus, neziedojot tam savu karjeru, un gūt ar to saistītos ekonomiskos un sociālos ieguvumus. Nav šaubu, ka galvenie ekonomiskie, sociālie un kulturālie risinājumi iedzīvotāju novecošanas novēršanai būs jāmeklē dalībvalstīm. Bet ir arī uzdevumi, kas veicami Eiropas Savienības līmenī. Eiropas Savienības darba tirgus vēl aizvien slēpj sevī milzu rezerves. Ir jāpanāk, lai iekšējā tirgū nepastāvētu robežas darbaspēka brīvai kustībai. Lai cik nebūtu sarežģīti, jāatgriežas pie pakalpojumu tirgus liberalizēšanas, jāpārskata pieņemtā pakalpojumu direktīva. Abu šo pamatbrīvību realizācija palīdzētu finansēt demogrāfisko procesu radītos ekonomiskos zaudējumus. Un, protams, jāsekmē nediskriminējoša attieksme pret dzimumu un vecumu. Paldies!

  Jean Lambert, on behalf of the Verts/ALE Group. – Madam President, it is interesting how we often see the declining birth rate etc. as a problem. This is not necessarily the case if it means that we are then starting to share some of the inordinate wealth that we have at European Union level with people coming from other countries and that we look at technical innovation and how we can increase productivity and maybe even produce fewer of the rubbishy goods that clutter up our lives and our planet at the moment.

Of course there is also an issue about making the best use of the potential labour force. This is why the anti-discrimination directives in the field of employment are crucially important and why it is essential that Member States implement those properly. They should also look at the barriers to phased retirement – issues such as: if you cut your working hours, what does that do to your pension; what does it do to your life and access to benefits?

We also ought to consider what is happening in the current financial crisis with regard to a lot of our thinking in this area. We are likely to see more older workers being laid off, because people are not implementing the anti-discrimination legislation properly, with all the implications for many of them of perhaps never getting back into work.

There will be others who will find it even more difficult to start their working lives or to find promotion to build up their pensions: all those aspects of what happens if you are not working for a period of time. There is the question of disaffection amongst the young who cannot find work, for whom it becomes more difficult, and of course the problems that many people will face when their private or occupational pension schemes are not able to pay out in the way that they thought they would.

So we also need to look at the demographic situation in the context of the current crisis and how we are going to use this opportunity in terms of increasing training. We should use that as a way of helping people to improve their skills, perhaps to find pathways to less physically demanding work – something that we have been saying for a considerable period of time needs to be done. We should look at how we might increase the higher-education qualifications of a number of people who never had that opportunity in their youth.

We now have the opportunity to look at certain of the elements that we know are problematic and really begin to look forward to how we are going to tackle the demographic situation.

  Pedro Guerreiro, em nome do Grupo GUE/NGL. – Gostaria de sublinhar que, em nossa opinião, o presente debate, ao invés de ser intitulado tendências demográficas e impacto económico e social, se deveria intitular política económica e social e seu impacto nas tendências demográficas.

As projecções das tendências demográficas de um país ou região não deverão ser dissociadas das políticas adoptadas nesse mesmo país ou região, pois estas integram os factores que determinam e condicionam a sua evolução demográfica.

Por exemplo, as projecções a 50 anos são feitas com base em pressupostos que deverão ser explicitados, entre eles as políticas económicas que determinam os cenários avançados. Isto é, face às projecções avançadas, o que deveria estar hoje em discussão eram as consequências para a evolução demográfica do desemprego, do aumento da precariedade laboral, da desregulamentação do horário de trabalho, de uma política monetária centrada na moderação e desvalorização dos salários. O que devia estar hoje em discussão eram as consequências da política de juros da União Europeia para milhares e milhares de famílias que contraíram empréstimo para aquisição de habitação, eram as consequências da liberalização e privatização dos serviços públicos, eram as consequências das baixas reformas e pensões para a autonomia e qualidade de vida de milhões de reformados e pensionistas. O que devia estar em discussão eram as políticas que promovem a centralização e concentração da riqueza e o aumento das desigualdades sociais.

No fundo, o que efectivamente está em discussão é o cumprimento ou não de direitos humanos, como o direito à alimentação, ao emprego, ao salário digno, à habitação, à saúde, ao ensino ou ao lazer.

  Kathy Sinnott, on behalf of the IND/DEM Group. – Madam President, we are facing a crisis in Europe to which we will not find a solution until we face the fact that the crisis is of our own making.

In the EU we kill over one and a half million children before birth every year. We destroy our future and then wonder why we have a crisis. We talk about a fertility problem, but this is not a fertility problem: it is a refusal to let millions of babies conceived be born. Unless we are honest in identifying the problem, there can be no solution. The solutions are that we must respect life and support the family, in order for that life to find a nurturing environment. By taking these steps, we can begin to tackle the challenge of skewed demographics. Improvement will not happen overnight, but at this point we can still avert disaster.

One should study the case of Japan closely. Two decades ago it was the second largest economy in the world, and one of the most advanced. In 2007 the Japanese population peaked and entered decline. In 1995, twelve years before the downturn, Japan entered deflation as negative demographics began to take their toll. It has never got out of it. Japan is 20 years ahead of Europe in this, but it was also 20 years ahead of European countries in legalising abortion. We peak in 2025 – which is only 17 years away. I wonder if the deflation we are now entering, in 2008, is here to stay, with the banking crisis being replaced by a demographic crisis, which will be with us until we learn to respect life again.

  Philip Claeys (NI). - Mevrouw de Voorzitter, het verheugt mij dat de Raad en de Commissie een verklaring afleggen over de economische en sociale impact van de huidige demografische tendensen. Veel politici hebben de kwalijke neiging om op korte termijn te denken en het beleid op langere termijn te verwaarlozen. Onze demografische uitdaging is een levensbelangrijk probleem op lange termijn dat ook oplossingen op lange termijn noodzakelijk maakt. Het gemiddelde geboortecijfer bij vrouwen in de Europese Unie is 1,5. Dat is te laag om de huidige generaties te vervangen. Hier ligt de kern van het probleem. Men kan grijpen naar een gemakkelijkheidsoplossing op korte termijn door te pleiten voor een nog grotere immigratiegolf van buiten Europa. Op papier kan zoiets een oplossing lijken, maar de dagelijkse realiteit in onze grote steden bewijst de totale mislukking van de lakse immigratiepolitiek van de jongste dertig jaren. We zitten met 20 miljoen werklozen in Europa en toch wil de Commissie nog meer immigranten invoeren. Ik wil er trouwens op wijzen dat het werkloosheidspercentage bij niet-Europese allochtonen beduidend hoger ligt dan bij de autochtone bevolking in de lidstaten.

Ik zal het uit tijdsgebrek maar niet hebben over de maatschappelijke problemen zoals de sociale ontwrichting die door de massale immigratie veroorzaakt wordt. Wat nodig is, is een beleid in de lidstaten dat jonge Europese gezinnen aanmoedigt in hun kinderwens. Er zijn in de lidstaten fiscale maatregelen nodig om het krijgen van kinderen aantrekkelijker te maken. Er moet in meer en betere kinderopvang voorzien worden. We moeten ook durven nadenken over de invoering van een opvoedersloon voor een van beide ouders die ervoor kiest om zich prioritair te wijden aan de opvoeding van de kinderen.

  Othmar Karas (PPE-DE). - Frau Präsidentin, meine Damen und Herren! Ich begrüße die Debatte, weil sie Bewusstsein schafft und nicht Angst macht. Wir müssen Taten setzen, jetzt und nicht erst morgen.

Der demografische Wandel hat seine Ursachen, Folgen und Herausforderungen. Die sinkende Bevölkerungszahl, Personen im Erwerbsleben werden weniger, wir leben länger. Die Kinder, die in diesen Minuten auf die Welt kommen, haben die Chance, 100 Jahre alt zu werden. Jedes zweite Kind wird das auch werden. Die Menschen werden älter und die Kinder leider weniger. Die Alters- und damit Bevölkerungsstruktur ändert sich dramatisch. Neue Infrastrukturanforderungen, neue Anforderungen an öffentliche Dienstleistungen, an wirtschaftliche, bildungspolitische und soziale Angebote stehen uns ins Haus und sind gefordert. Wir sind ein alternder Kontinent. Jean-Claude Juncker hat einmal gesagt: Wenn wir unsere Sozial-, Pensions- und Gesundheitssysteme nicht rasch nachhaltig sanieren und zukunftsfit machen, werden wir vom Gewinner zum Verlierer der Globalisierung werden.

Was ist zu tun? Viel! Die Vereinbarkeit von Familie und Beruf wirklich sicherstellen. Menschen nicht mehr aus dem Erwerbsleben drängen. Neue Formen der Pflege, der Kinderbetreuung, der mobilen Dienste, wie Essen auf Rädern, sind gefordert. Die Finanzierung der Pflege muss in allen Mitgliedstaaten aus der Sozialhilfe herausgelöst und zur solidarischen Verantwortung werden. Wir haben eine bildungspolitische Herausforderung. Wir sollten als Ziel haben, der kinder- und menschenfreundlichste Kontinent der Welt zu werden. Die Anrechnung der Kindererziehungszeiten, der Pflege – 80% der Pflegenden sind Familienangehörige. Gleicher Lohn für gleiche Arbeit. Es gibt viel zu tun. Die Ursachen für unsere Probleme sind vielfältig.

  Françoise Castex (PSE). - Madame la Présidente, Monsieur le Ministre, en quelques mots: le point d'achoppement de ce défi démographique que nous aurons à relever, c'est bien évidemment, d'un point de vue économique et social, la diminution de la population active. Deux chiffres: en 2010, nous serons 217 millions de personnes en âge de travailler, en 2050, 180 millions de personnes, soit un déficit de près de 36 millions de personnes.

Peut-on craindre une pénurie de main-d'œuvre? Peut-on craindre un déséquilibre entre la population active et la population dépendante?

À ce problème, nous proposons deux réponses qui vont vers la gestion la plus optimale de la ressource humaine. Dans un premier temps, le plein emploi. Nous devons aller vers le plein emploi. Il existe actuellement d'importantes possibilités d'emplois, compte tenu du sous-emploi des jeunes, des femmes, des seniors à partir de 55 ans et des personnes sous-qualifiées. Nous assistons à un immense gâchis de compétences. Nous voyons que si le taux d'emploi des femmes et des seniors entre 55 et 65 ans atteignait, d'ici 2050, les meilleurs taux d'Europe, nous pourrions compenser ce déficit de main-d'œuvre.

Enfin, l'éducation et la formation tout au long de la vie. Nous voulons aller vers des cycles de vie active optimisés. Il n'est pas normal qu'un ouvrier, qu'un agent de maîtrise, qu'un cadre de 50 ans n'ait pour seule perspective de carrière qu'une stagnation de sa progression de carrière. Il en va de la responsabilité sociale des entreprises.

(Le Président retire la parole à l'orateur)

  Marco Cappato (ALDE). - Signora Presidente, signor Commissario, onorevoli colleghi, la popolazione mondiale è raddoppiata in pochi decenni con conseguenze devastanti sul pianeta e allora il fatto che la tendenza europea sia almeno in parte diversa è un fatto positivo.

Esistono problemi sul piano della previdenza sociale, certamente, ma la risposta non è quella di incoraggiare a fare più figli, ma semmai alzare l'età pensionabile, eliminare la discriminazione contro gli anziani in paesi come l'Italia dove i disincentivi a lavorare dopo l'età pensionabile sono così alti da far diventare la pensione un obbligo invece che un diritto.

Sul piano globale, invito la Presidenza in particolare ad attivarsi per la convocazione della nuova conferenza delle Nazioni Unite sulla popolazione, bloccata ormai da anni a causa delle pressioni di Stati come lo Stato vaticano e di chi teme politiche responsabili di informazione sessuale e di pianificazione familiare.

  Ewa Tomaszewska (UEN). - Pani Przewodnicząca! Trendy demograficzne w Europie od kilkunastu lat mają charakter głęboko niepokojący. Wskaźnik dzietności gwarantujący prostą zastępowalność pokoleń to 2,16. W Polsce wskaźnik ten wynosi 1,2. Zarazem ze względu na osiągnięcia medycyny i zdrowszy styl życia ludzie żyją dłużej. Europa starzeje się, ale też Europa wymiera. W roku 2030 stosunek liczby osób zawodowo czynnych do liczby zawodowo nieaktywnych będzie jak 1 do 2.

Antyrodzinna polityka ekonomiczno-społeczna, propagowanie w mediach wzorca rodziny z małą liczbą dzieci i małżeństw bezdzietnych oraz polityka sprzyjająca rozpadowi rodzin to istotne przyczyny negatywnych zmian w sytuacji demograficznej Europy. Jej najpoważniejszymi skutkami będą: niedobór pracowników na rynku pracy zagrażający rozwojowi gospodarczemu, gwałtowny spadek efektywności systemów emerytalnych i wzrost kosztów funkcjonowania systemów ochrony zdrowia wobec szczególnych potrzeb starzejącego się społeczeństwa.

  Irena Belohorská (NI). - Vítam diskusiu k týmto problémom a myslím si, že je dôležitá práve teraz, keď súčasne musíme riešiť finančnú a ekonomickú krízu. Demografické trendy poukazujú na to, že na jednej strane zlepšením zdravotnej starostlivosti, na strane druhej znižovaním pôrodnosti dochádza k starnutiu obyvateľstva. Je preto potrebné, aby sme sa na túto realitu pripravili a zabezpečili zodpovedajúce oblasti.

V oblasti sociálnej bude pomerne náročným problémom zabezpečenie dôchodkov. V oblasti zdravotnej musíme myslieť na zabezpečenie liečby hlavne ochorení, ktoré sa viažu na vyšší vek. Vieme, že napríklad až dve tretiny onkologických ochorení sa viažu na vek nad 60 rokov.

Udržateľnosť sociálneho systému bude vyžadovať zvýšenie, ale aj zlepšenie a prispôsobenie pracovných podmienok pre starších ľudí. Ide predovšetkým o ženy nad 55 rokov a mužov vekovej kategórie 55 až 64 rokov. Doplňovať úbytok populácie imigráciou mladých ľudí z tretích krajín je možné, ale predovšetkým by sme sa mali snažiť vytvárať podmienky na stabilizáciu mladej vzdelanej generácie, ktorá nám dnes odchádza do USA.

Vzhľadom na zhoršenie reprodukčného zdravia mladých žien by sme mali podporovať asistovanú reprodukciu. Pre mnohé mladé rodiny je finančne nemožné si ju hradiť. Mne sa zdá, že asi nesplníme lisabonskú stratégiu. Snažme sa aspoň obnoviť myšlienku Európskej aliancie podpory rodiny, či už daňovými bonusmi alebo zlepšením zariadení pre deti predškolského veku. Materská dovolenka by mala byť krytá plným platom a nie životným minimom.

  Gabriela Creţu (PSE). - Domnule ministru, îmi pare rău să vă contrazic, dar noi nu avem o problemă, avem mai multe. Dar nu sunt demografice, ci politice, sociale şi etice. Afirmăm că dorim o natalitate mai ridicată, dar 30% dintre copiii deja născuţi trăiesc sub pragul de sărăcie. Consecinţa viitoare: slabă educaţie, slujbe proaste, productivitate scăzută şi contribuţii la asigurări mici.

Poziţia Consiliului privind Directiva asupra timpului de lucru contrazice flagrant intenţiile de a compatibiliza munca şi viaţa privată. Infertilitatea este o boală pe care Organizaţia Mondială a Sănătăţii o recunoaşte, dar multe state membre nu. Drept urmare, asigurările nu decontează costul tratamentelor. Pentru a plăti o singură încercare de fertilizare artificială, în România, o persoană care câştigă salariul mediu şi îl economiseşte integral, trebuie să muncească 9 luni. Concepţia necesită 3-4 încercări şi încă 9 luni pentru a se naşte copilul.

Stimaţi colegi, cea mai eficientă soluţie ar fi să promovăm politici coerente între ele şi să ne asigurăm de corespondenţa dintre declaraţiile făcute şi măsurile adoptate.

  Samuli Pohjamo (ALDE). - Arvoisa puhemies, erityisen suurena väestönkehityksen haasteet tuntuvat pohjoisen harvaanasutuilla alueilla. Muuttoliike vie alueelta nuorta ja koulutettua väestöä ja ikääntyvän väestön osuus taas kasvaa nopeasti. Tämä tuo muun muassa sosiaali- ja terveydenhuollon palveluiden järjestämiseen lisääntyviä kustannuksia, joita pitkät etäisyydet vielä korostavat. Uuden teknologian ja uusien innovaatioiden avulla on kuitenkin pystytty luomaan uusia palveluita, jotka auttavat ikääntyvää väestöä ja joita voidaan hyödyntää koko unionin alueella.

Yksi keino muuttaa haasteet mahdollisuuksiksi on myös tehokas aluepolitiikka. Tehokkaalla aluepolitiikalla voidaan hyödyntää alueiden mahdollisuuksia, luoda uusia työpaikkoja ja tuottaa lisäarvoa koko Euroopalle. Samalla väestönkehitystä voidaan muuttaa myönteisemmäksi.

  Jan Cremers (PSE). - Voorzitter, collega's, Commissie en geachte minister, toen we voor de zomer in dit Parlement spraken over de gevolgen van de demografische ontwikkeling, hadden we nog onvoldoende idee van de huidige economische crisis. Die crisis zal de druk verhogen op onze sociale stelsels. Als gevolg van de te verwachten groei van de werkloosheid mag op korte termijn misschien wel enige ontspanning op de arbeidsmarkt worden verwacht. Op de lange termijn levert dit echter geen oplossing voor de geschetste problemen van de vergrijzing.

Indien door de verslechtering van de economie de druk op de oudere werknemer om vroegtijdig de arbeidsmarkt te verlaten, wordt verhoogd, vervallen we in de oude fout. De nadruk moet nu en in de toekomst blijven liggen op flexibele pensionering op vrijwillige basis, gecombineerd met het zodanig inrichten van de werkorganisatie dat langer blijven werken een reële optie wordt. De financiële crisis heeft opnieuw aangetoond waarom we verantwoord met pensioengelden moeten omgaan. De duurzaamheid van het pensioenstelsel, afgestemd op de demografische én de economische ontwikkelingen en gebaseerd op risicomijdende beleggingsstrategieën op de lange termijn, moet grote prioriteit krijgen. Voorts dient de Europese Commissie werk te maken van de regulering van en het toezicht op pan-Europese pensioenproducten.

  Miroslav Mikolášik (PPE-DE). - Zmenený životný štýl mladej generácie je taký, že každý chce po štúdiu cestovať veľa rokov, potom nasleduje budovanie kariéry, potom majú mladí ľudia viac ako 30 rokov vrátane mladej dámy a väčšinou prinesie na svet jedného potomka. Rodina sa vníma dnes ako negatívna záťaž a mladí muži takisto na druhej strane nie sú schopní sľúbiť žene manželstvo a istotu.

Je stále veľký počet umelých prerušení tehotenstva, veľký podiel žien používa hormonálnu antikoncepciu, preto počet žien, ktoré sú vlastne fyziologicky schopné počať dieťa, je veľmi malý. Index plodnosti v krajinách Európy sa pohybuje medzi 1,1 až 1,3. Len Francúzsko, ktoré dáva finančné prostriedky do podpory rodiny dlhodobo, má ten index, ktorý sa blíži k 2. Nedávny európsky kongres o rodine na univerzite v Ružomberku ...

  Mairead McGuinness (PPE-DE). - Madam President, it seems we will all live longer but enjoy fewer grandchildren. I suppose the reasons why that is the case are very complex and varied. I think children are seen as a ‘problem’ and you hear that when you talk to people who do not have children. We also talk about a child care ‘problem’ rather than a ‘solution’.

Older people, too, feel that they are a burden and worry about who will look after them into their old age. I think that those of us in the middle somewhere fear this impending doom because there will be even fewer people around to pay for our pensions and to look after us when we, too, are unable to do so.

The role of carers in society, as Marian Harkin rightly pointed out, is totally undervalued and that needs to change. And I wonder – listening to tonight’s debate – in the context of the financial and economic crisis, can the Commission perhaps answer this question, and see that this problem of the demographic trend could actually get worse because of the situation we are now in? That would be regrettable.

  Silvia-Adriana Ţicău (PSE). - Doamnă Preşedintă, domnule comisar, Uniunea Europeană trebuie să fie pregătită să facă faţă provocărilor demografice. Europa socială trebuie să fie capabilă să răspundă aşteptărilor cetăţenilor săi: o educaţie de calitate, un sistem de sănătate eficient şi accesibil, locuri de muncă care să permită o viaţă decentă şi garanţia unei pensii decente după o viaţă de muncă.

Populaţia Uniunii îmbătrâneşte. În acelaşi timp, sunt puţine state membre în care natalitatea a crescut, Irlanda şi Franţa fiind performerele în acest domeniu, ca urmare a politicilor specifice adoptate. În acelaşi timp, deşi la nivel comunitar rata mortalităţii infantile a scăzut la 4,7 la mia de locuitori, sunt totuşi state membre în care aceasta este de 12 la mia de locuitori.

Europa trebuie să investească în sănătate, educaţie şi protecţie socială. Asigurarea de locuri de muncă bine plătite înseamnă o viaţă decentă pentru lucrători, dar şi asigurarea resurselor necesare pentru plata pensiilor. Sistemul de pensii este un sistem bazat pe solidaritatea dintre generaţii.

  Toomas Savi (ALDE). - Madam President, the European Union is an ageing society. There are many people in the EU who choose to advance professionally instead of concentrating on their family lives, until it is far too late for them to have children.

Having recently become a grandfather, I am a fierce advocate of an Estonian family planning measure that allows one of the parents to stay at home for 18 months after the birth of their child, guaranteeing social benefits more or less equal to the parent’s salary before his or her leave – the parental allowance.

It is my strong opinion that, unless we want to burden our children with unreasonably high taxes, we ought to start implementing a similar approach across the EU. In Estonia, for example, such a policy has brought the nation out of a seemingly interminable decrease in population.

  Avril Doyle (PPE-DE). - Madam President, the most important work done by any citizen is the rearing of the next generation. And, without any hectoring or lecturing of the young women of today, married or single, what we need to do is restore the freedom of choice to all women who want to stay at home to have the second or third child and to ensure that they are not forced to remain in employment because of economic and financial circumstances.

We must ensure that full pension credits or a parental pension or a maternal pension are preserved for the women working in the home so that their old age will be financially secure and that they can be properly rewarded by the state for doing that most important work for all of us: rearing the next generation.

On another point, given the increased average number of healthy years available to most of us, the compulsory retirement age – the traditional retirement age – of 65 must be revisited, and revisited urgently. On average, women are now well into their thirties when they give birth to their first child. We must review this situation as quickly as possible.

  Czesław Adam Siekierski (PPE-DE). - Pani Przewodnicząca! Wszyscy mamy świadomość, że społeczeństwo europejskie się starzeje, ale czy wszyscy zdajemy sobie sprawę, jakie będzie miało to konsekwencje dla naszej gospodarki czy rynku pracy. W dobie globalizacji problemy demograficzne zyskują dużo szerszy wymiar. Unii Europejskiej potrzebne jest zatem kompleksowe działanie i to na bardzo wielu płaszczyznach.

Z jednej strony musimy zadbać o realizację celów Strategii Lizbońskiej, dążyć do podniesienia poziomu zatrudnienia, zwiększyć udział kobiet w rynku pracy i zahamować tendencję do przechodzenia na wcześniejsze emerytury. Konieczny jest także większy nacisk na edukację, zwłaszcza na kierunkach inżynierskich i informatycznych, tak ważnych z punktu widzenia gospodarki opartej na wiedzy. Istotne jest także promowanie edukacji przez całe życie, przygotowanie pracowników na bycie otwartym na nowe wyzwania.

  Jean-Pierre Jouyet, président en exercice du Conseil. − Madame la Présidente, je vais essayer de respecter vos consignes. Monsieur le Commissaire, Mesdames et Messieurs les députés, le débat a été extrêmement riche et on voit bien à travers les différentes interventions que la résolution de ce défi démographique est multiple.

Il y a des pistes d'action qui sont extrêmement complémentaires, j'y reviendrai. Dans une certaine mesure, c'est vrai qu'il faut augmenter les taux d'emploi, c'est vrai que nous aurons également besoin d'une immigration pour résoudre le déficit démographique et il est important, dans ce cadre, qu'elle reste maîtrisée et organisée. Il est vrai aussi qu'il nous faut des politiques familiales et de soutien de la natalité qui existent; il est vrai qu'il y a des exigences de solidarité à l'égard des personnes âgées et que leur prise en charge doit être renforcée. Il est vrai aussi que nous devons, dans ce cadre, faire extrêmement attention au développement d'infrastructures collectives en matière d'éducation, en matière de prise en charge des enfants et aussi en matière de prise en charge des risques de dépendance pour les plus âgés.

Comme le soulignaient aussi plusieurs orateurs, nous devons prendre en compte les atouts qui sont les nôtres, notamment l'apparition de nouvelles technologies d'information avec les efforts en matière de recherche et de développement, avec toutes les flexibilités qui peuvent exister en matière d'assistance médicale et sanitaire, avec aussi tout ce qui peut être fait pour prévenir et aider au diagnostic prénatal, tout ce qui peut être fait pour l'aide à la petite enfance et à sa prise en charge collective. Donc, il y a un ensemble de défis mais aussi d'atouts qui existent pour relever ce défi démographique.

Nous devons être aussi prêts à veiller aux conséquences qu'a cette transformation démographique, cela a été aussi souligné au cours du débat, sur la viabilité de nos systèmes de protection sociale et sur la viabilité du régime des retraites, qui sont une des caractéristiques du modèle de solidarité européen. Nous devons prendre des mesures à long terme, en dépit de la crise économique et financière que nous traversons, pour assurer cette viabilité et nous devons aussi, bien évidemment, prendre en compte les conséquences de ce changement démographique profond sur les différentes formes d'organisation du travail. M. Cappato a insisté à travers un exemple précis sur ce fait et il a entièrement raison.

Pour conclure, je crois que la Commission, mais le commissaire Potočnik le dira, le Parlement et le Conseil doivent poursuivre le dialogue dans l'esprit de ce débat. Il s'agit sans aucun doute du défi à long terme que l'Europe doit le plus certainement anticiper, organiser et devant lequel tout ce qui a trait aux préoccupations qui sont les nôtres dans le cadre de la crise économique et financière ne doit pas nous empêcher de poursuivre notre action et notre adaptation.

  Janez Potočnik, Member of the Commission. − Madam President, we have heard today a clear message that we have a very serious challenge – that of the ageing of society.

In many ways the 21st century is an era of fragility, and we have to deal with this. We all have to do everything possible. As was mentioned, longevity should be a reward and not a punishment. It was also mentioned that it would be consistent to do this in the context of the Lisbon Agenda, and I agree. We can understand the Lisbon Agenda in a simple way, going towards a knowledge-based society and being concerned about sustainability, whether it be in relation to social security, the environment or the economy. What we have learnt from this crisis is that even the profits have to be clearly sustainable.

So the present financial crisis should not divert our attention from any of the problems which we have been patiently discussing in recent years, including the problem which we are discussing today. It is only one additional problem. When we have dealt with it, we have to come out of the financial crisis with a structure that is capable of dealing with all the challenges which the 21st century brings us. So it is important that in this context we are aware of all the possible aspects of sustainability – sustainability of the planet on which we live, between living beings on the planet, between us humans and between generations, which is very much the essence of the demographic question which we are discussing today.

Our policies should definitely address this. The demographic forum to be held on 24 and 25 November – which I mentioned in my opening address – is certainly one good opportunity to do so. We should certainly continue the dialogue between the Council, Member States, Parliament and the Commission. Your discussions today prove that the debate is very timely. I would like to thank you on behalf of the Commission for those views. All the things you have mentioned are extremely important – promoting demographic renewal, reconciliation of family and working life, the questions of carers, mobility and anti-discrimination and other policies. All this is valid when we talk about this problem.

  La Présidente. - Le débat est clos.