Doslovný zápis z rozpráv

Štvrtok, 14. mája 2020 - Brusel

4. Núdzové právne predpisy v Maďarsku a ich vplyv na právny štát a základné práva (rozprava)

  Der Präsident. – Als nächster Punkt der Tagesordnung folgt die Aussprache über die Erklärungen des Rates und der Kommission zu Notstandsgesetzen in Ungarn und ihre Auswirkungen auf Rechtsstaatlichkeit und Grundrechte (2020/2620(RSP)).

Ich weise die Mitglieder darauf hin, dass es bei dieser Aussprache keine spontanen Wortmeldungen gibt und dass keine blauen Karten akzeptiert werden.

  Nikolina Brnjac, President-in-Office of the Council. – Mr President, I would like to begin by underlining that the rule of law plays a crucial role in all our democracies.

As recalled by the European Union’s strategic agenda for 2019-2024, rule of law is a key guarantee that our common values are well protected and complied with. Croatia’s Presidency programme also puts the focus on further establishing the Union as an area of freedom, security and justice, founded on common values, democracy and rule of law.

This is even more essential in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic. Unprecedented circumstances have led many Member States to adopt far-reaching measures, which have been key to acting rapidly and effectively to protect the public health of citizens.

However, some of the measures do have a significant impact on fundamental rights, democracy and the rule of law. It is therefore essential that they are necessary, that they are proportionate to the objective, limited in time, subject to regular scrutiny and respects fundamental rights and the rule of law.

The European Commission President reaffirmed these principles in a statement on 31 March, and they were subsequently supported in statements by a significant number of states.

The Article 7 procedure, concerning Hungary, was on the agenda of the General Affairs Council of 25 March 2020. However, due to the COVID-19 emergency, that meeting had to be cancelled. Unfortunately, this is not over for the time being, and it is not possible to hold formal Council meetings. Instead, informal meetings of ministers are arranged through videoconference calls to allow the exchange of information and to discuss urgent information.

The Croatian Presidency believes it is important to facilitate the dialogue and exchange of best practices. In that regard, we organised an informal videoconference of ministers of justice on 6 April 2020, which addressed the impact of extraordinary measures on our justice system. Support was expressed by the Commission’s initiative to monitor the extraordinary measures and their application across the Union on an equal basis for all Member States.

We are well aware of the European Parliament’s resolution of 17 April 2020, which also echoed these essential elements. On 22 April, emergency measures adopted during the COVID-19 crisis were discussed at an informal meeting through a videoconference of European Affairs Ministers. Once more, a broad majority of Member States supported that approach that I’ve just highlighted.

The European Commission is closely monitoring the measures adopted by the Member States, including Hungary, and their compatibility with all the mentioned principles. We welcome the Commission’s extensive and continued monitoring of the application of emergency measures adopted by all Member States.

We are also confident that all governments will withdraw emergency measures as soon as positive developments in the COVID-19 pandemic makes this possible.

We trust that all Hungarian institutions will fully and rapidly cooperate with the EU institutions, and we all have a joint responsibility to ensure that the rule of law and fundamental rights remain the cornerstones of our common project. This is even more true during these difficult times if the Union is to emerge from the COVID-19 crisis even stronger.

  Věra Jourová, Vice-President of the Commission. – Mr President, in these challenging times, the Commission stands in solidarity with all the citizens of Europe and fully supports all the Member States in their fight against the pandemic. As President von der Leyen said, we need to ensure that Europe does everything it can to save every life it can.

At the same time, the Commission has made clear from the outset that the response to this crisis must fully respect our fundamental principles and values as set out in our treaties. The commitment of all EU institutions and Member States to upholding the rule of law and fundamental rights is essential.

Emergency measures adopted and implemented by Member States must be limited to what is necessary and strictly proportionate. They must not last indefinitely. Moreover, governments must make sure that such measures are subject to regular scrutiny, fully respecting democratic checks and balances. The emergency measures cannot mean switching off constitutions or EU law.

This is why the Commission is proactively monitoring the emergency measures for all Member States, including Hungary. We are looking in particular at how the emergency measures are being used in practice and what their impact is, in particular on the rule of law, on fundamental rights and on EU law.

Firstly, as regards the impact on the rule of law, situations which require close attention are those where the state of emergency does not have a predefined duration, where its duration is considerably long, where parliaments do not have the possibility to terminate such state of emergency, where the powers granted to the government are open—ended or where judicial review or other national checks and balances are restricted.

Secondly, the impact on fundamental rights. The angle here is to closely scrutinise the impact of limitations in practice, whether the standards imposed by international obligations and relevant guidance are being maintained, and what limitations might go beyond what is strictly proportionate.

And thirdly, the impact on EU law. We are checking whether the measures adopted under the emergency arrangements comply with EU law or whether they lead to possible disapplication of national laws implementing EU law.

As stressed by Commission President von der Leyen in her letter of 7 April to President Sassoli in this context, the case of Hungary raises particular concerns. In the case of Hungary, the emergency powers granted appear more extensive than in other Member States, considering the combined effect of broadly defined powers and the absence of a clear time limit.

The criminalisation of stating or spreading false information related to the crisis is not clearly defined and is accompanied by strict sanctions. This raises potential concerns as regards legal certainty and may have a chilling effect on freedom of expression. These particular concerns come in a well—known context in Hungary as regards rule of law and respect for EU values. The Commission is, therefore, monitoring very closely the use of emergency powers in Hungary.

Allow me to be more specific as regards the situation of media. Now it is more important than ever to pursue measures that are effective in curbing the spread of disinformation but do not limit free speech. The fight against disinformation should not and may not reduce our democratic values, including the possibility to have a fair democratic debate where different voices can be heard.

In Hungary, the environment in which media and journalists operate has been deteriorating for a number of years. Organisations and associations representing civil society and journalists have been sounding warnings about the situation. These warnings grew louder following the adoption by Hungary of the provision criminalising the spreading of disinformation relating to COVID—19.

Especially in moments like this, we need reliable journalism, employing professional standards to provide accurate information and to scrutinise the measures taken in response to the global health threat. Journalists should be able to work freely, have access to information, ask questions. Their job is to hold us politicians to account for our actions.

In the EU, we are now entering a new phase where certain measures taken to protect public health will be gradually relaxed. This new phase means that the general states of emergency, with exceptional powers granted to governments, should gradually be removed or replaced by more targeted and less intrusive measures. For that reason, the Commission will be very vigilant on how emergency measures, which affect the rule of law, fundamental rights and democratic values, are phased out in the Member States.

This is even more important for Hungary, given the lack of a clear time limit for the state of danger. I expect, first of all, that the Hungarian people will be the ones who will want to return to enjoying their rights in full. I also expect the Hungarian national parliament to exercise its scrutiny role. Civil society, free and independent media, regular scrutiny and national checks and balances are essential for overseeing the government’s exercise of power. We can only face up to the challenges stemming from this crisis by bringing our societies and democracies together in a spirit of understanding and good cooperation.

The Commission is considering how to reflect as relevant the situation of the emergency measures in Member States in upcoming policy documents such as the rule of law report, the European democracy action plan and the renewed fundamental rights strategy, all due for adoption by the end of this year. Honourable Members, I look forward to hearing your views on this matter.

  Der Präsident. – Ich möchte den Hinweis des Präsidenten von gestern wiederholen, dass auch hier im Plenum eine Maskenpflicht gilt und dass Sie die Maske für Ihre Redezeit abnehmen können. Dann ersparen Sie den Saaldienern, jeden Einzelnen aufzusuchen.

  Andor Deli, a PPE képviselőcsoport nevében. – Tisztelt Elnök úr! Tisztelt alelnök asszony, kedves kollégák! A koronavírusos helyzet végéhez közelítve egyértelmű: most kell igazán egységesen kiállnunk az emberek egészségének megőrzése és a gazdaság fellendítésének ügyében. Ebben van szükség tényleges európai összefogásra annak érdekében, hogy Európa releváns tudjon maradni a globális színtéren. Az Európai Parlamentnek elsősorban ebben kellene segédkeznie. De úgy látszik, vannak frakciók a balliberális oldalon, amelyek egyszerűen nem engedhetik meg maguknak, hogy ne támadják újra meg újra immár havi rendszerességgel Magyarországot. Sokkal könnyebb üres ideológiai vitákat szervezni, mint a lényegről és a tényekről beszélni és azzal foglalkozni, ami ténylegesen érinti és érdekli az embereket a tagállamokban.

Ezért van ma újra Magyarország a napirenden egy olyan vitában, amelynél a szervezők előre tudták, hogy az európai parlamenti képviselők kilencven százaléka nem tud részt venni és nem tudja elmondani a véleményét. A magyar kormány részvételét az Európai Parlament elnöke nem segítette annak ellenére, hogy az ügyrendi szabályok ebben nem akadályozták, az online részvételt pedig teljesen kizárták, miközben az áprilisi plenáris ülésen a szocialista és liberális frakciók vezetői a kivetítőkön szólalhattak fel. Most ez miért nem lehetséges a magyar kormány számára? A Bizottság pedig nem állapított meg semmilyen jogsértést a felhatalmazási törvény kapcsán, ezért ez a vita számomra egyszerűen az európai értékek és az alapvető jogi elvek megcsúfolása és a régi koncepciós perek idejét idézi. Sajnos itt az érvek és a tények senkit sem érdekelnek.

  Iratxe García Pérez, en nombre del Grupo S&D. – Señor presidente, la semana pasada la ONG Freedom House concluyó que Hungría no puede ser calificada como una democracia. Señorías, esto es un hecho sin precedente: que un país de la Unión Europea haya dejado de ser una democracia completa. Tristemente, en 2005, esta misma ONG colocaba a Hungría como una de las nuevas democracias más prometedoras de Europa.

Y, a pesar de la gravedad, la Unión no ha tomado medidas concretas que sancionen al Gobierno de Orbán por sus acciones. Y así, él, pues se va creciendo en una escalada sin fin para centralizar el poder, interferir en el sistema electoral, controlar los medios de comunicación, la educación, la cultura, acosar a la sociedad civil organizada. Señorías, esto es vergonzante: un ataque a los valores fundamentales de nuestra Unión y un ataque demoledor a nuestra reputación internacional.

Además, durante la pandemia, los casos de violencia de género han aumentado de forma alarmante en Hungría y, lejos de ayudar, Fidesz presenta una declaración en el Parlamento para no ratificar el Convenio de Estambul, para que los acosadores, para que los que están ejerciendo esa violencia no se vean castigados. Esto no puede seguir así. ¿A qué espera el Consejo? ¿A qué espera la Comisión? Es hora de despertar y de reaccionar contra lo que está pasando.

Hemos construido esta Unión para preservar la democracia, para preservar los valores fundamentales, y es totalmente inaceptable que esto esté ocurriendo. Señorías, el silencio es complicidad y, por eso, insto al Consejo a iniciar inmediatamente las conversaciones para activar el artículo 7 del TUE.

Y, por último, insto también a nuestros colegas del Partido Popular Europeo a que dejen de proteger a Orbán y a que expulsen a Fidesz de su familia política. ¿Cuántas cartas, cuántas excusas más necesitan recibir de Orbán para ver que se está burlando de ustedes? ¡Se está burlando de ustedes! Y no se confundan: no atacamos a Hungría, atacamos a quienes están haciendo desaparecer la democracia en un país europeo. Tengan en cuenta que estas amistades no les convienen para nada. Denles la espalda.

  Ramona Strugariu, on behalf of the Renew Group. – Mr President, what is happening right now in Hungary and what Orbán is doing is not only grounds, dear Commissioner, for concern; it is a reason for starting infringement procedures. It is literally about Hungary’s exit, in law, from the European Union and from European values. It is happening right now. This is not only my opinion, it is the opinion of 57% of Hungarian citizens, who in a recent poll said that what Orbán is doing is finishing off basically what he started. Mr Orbán should have been here in the room to answer some questions today, but he said he was busy fighting the pandemic.

Well, may I ask him, what is the connection between pandemics and rejection of the Istanbul Convention? Does violence against women help him fight pandemics? Are there any special fighting tactics that we have to learn? What is the connection between this and the indefinite state of emergency and fully silencing civil society and the independent media and criminalising independent journalists. And how about arresting people? How is he fighting the pandemic by arresting people who criticise the Hungarian Government?

I’m really sorry, Commissioner and dear colleagues, but this government should not receive one single cent, not one penny, from the EU, any longer – not today, not in the future MFF, not ever – until they follow rules and values. Yes, the Hungarian people should receive this money – civil society, businesses, communities – but directly from the Commission and directly managed by the Commission, not this government and not Orbán, until they leave and until they let Hungary breathe.

  Nicolas Bay, au nom du groupe ID. – Monsieur le Président, imaginez le gouvernement d’un État membre de l’Union européenne qui restreindrait les libertés fondamentales avec une nouvelle loi d’état d’urgence sanitaire aux contours très nébuleux. Imaginez un gouvernement qui essaierait de contrôler l’information par une plateforme officielle qui traquerait les prétendues fake news. Imaginez que, dans ce pays, les juges constitutionnels seraient désignés unilatéralement par le pouvoir politique, sans voie de recours possible. Imaginez que, dans cet État membre, pas plus tard qu’hier, une nouvelle loi aurait restreint dramatiquement la liberté d’expression en instaurant une censure sur Internet, sans possibilité de faire appel.

Un tel gouvernement, il existe, mais pas en Hongrie. C’est celui de la France d’Emmanuel Macron. Et il n’y a personne ici pour s’en émouvoir. Alors, certains, dans les institutions européennes, enragent et trépignent quand ils voient Viktor Orban disposer de la plus forte légitimité électorale lors des dernières élections européennes. Ils enragent et ils trépignent parce qu’un pays ne plie pas face aux injonctions de la gauche morale. Ils enragent et ils trépignent, alors ils nous imposent, une fois de plus, un énième débat en pleine crise sanitaire, un énième débat sur la Hongrie, qui sera tout aussi stérile, tout aussi inutile, tout aussi inopérant que les précédents.

L’État de danger prévu par la Constitution est mis en œuvre, sous une forme analogue d’ailleurs, dans les autres pays européens, il a été approuvé par le parlement hongrois, aucun abus n’a été constaté. Les raisons réelles de cet acharnement, nous le savons, c’est le refus de la Hongrie de la folle politique migratoire de l’Union européenne. Cet état de droit, il est aujourd’hui instrumentalisé, il est utilisé pour imposer le gouvernement des juges contre la volonté des peuples.

(Die Aussprache wird unterbrochen.)