Πληρη πρακτικα των συζητησεων

Τετάρτη 14 Σεπτεμβρίου 2022 - Στρασβούργο

15.1. Παραβιάσεις των ανθρωπίνων δικαιωμάτων στο πλαίσιο της αναγκαστικής απέλασης Ουκρανών πολιτών και της αναγκαστικής υιοθεσίας παιδιών από την Ουκρανία στη Ρωσία

  Przewodnicząca. – Kolejnym punktem porządku dziennego jest debata nad pięcioma projektami rezolucji w sprawie łamania praw człowieka w związku z przymusową wywózką cywilów ukraińskich i przymusową adopcją dzieci ukraińskich w Rosji (2022/2826(RSP))*.

_______________

* Patrz protokół posiedzenia.

  Michaela Šojdrová, author. – Dear colleagues, thank you to all the co-rapporteurs for your cooperation on this resolution. We raise our voice against the massive deportation of Ukrainian civilians, including children. According to estimates, more than 1 million Ukrainians have been deported to Russia, including more than 200 000 children forcefully taken there. Ukrainian children are being separated from their parents, seized and put up for adoption. Russia is actively trying to steer the future of Ukraine. If we want to help Ukraine, we must ensure that their future children will be returned.

That is why we call on Russia to immediately cease the forced deportation and forcible transfer of Ukrainian civilians, especially children. Russia must repeal all legislation facilitating the adoption of Ukraine’s children and allow for the reunification with their parents. We stress the urgent need for EU and international organisations such as the United Nations Refugee Agency and UNICEF to have access to visit to the filtration camp, those facilities, and assist Ukrainian citizens, especially children, in their return to Ukraine.

As President von der Leyen said today, courage as a face, the face of Ukrainian brave people, mothers and their children. We will follow the track of these children and we will not stop until their safe return.

  Przewodnicząca. – Zgłosił się – rozumiem, że w myśl art. 195 – pan poseł Gunnar Beck. Daję Panu jedną minutę.

  Gunnar Beck (ID). – Madam President, I would like to raise a point of order based on Rule 144, which provides that matters concerning breaches of human rights, democracy and the rule of law be dealt with in accordance with the provisions of Annex IV. Now, Annex IV, paragraph 2, states that ‘motions for resolutions shall not exceed 500 words’. The wording in the annex is clear and prescriptive: shall means shall. Yet most resolutions tabled consistently exceed the word limit, and not by a small margin. The joint motions for resolutions are even worse. The ID Group therefore requests that the Rules of Procedure be respected and that motions for resolutions that exceed the word count be deemed inadmissible.

For this part session, of all the motions tabled, only three comply with the Rules of Procedure, namely the ID’s own motion on Nicaragua and both the ECR’s and the EPP’s motions on Uganda and Tanzania. We therefore request that all other motions for resolution be deemed inadmissible, and we only proceed to vote on those three.

  Przewodnicząca. – Szanowny Panie Pośle, ma Pan rację co do objętości tych rezolucji. Jednak przez wiele lat art. 144 ust. 2 i załącznik IV, zwłaszcza jego ust. 2, były interpretowane w sposób elastyczny dla wszystkich grup politycznych, łącznie z Pańską grupą polityczną. W związku z tym dopuszczam do procedowania wszystkie rezolucje i proszę o zabranie głosu autora rezolucji, panią poseł Evin Incir.

  Evin Incir, författare. – Fru talman! Det gör ont när historien upprepas mitt inför våra ögon. Verktyg som användes av kommunismens och nazismens diktaturer används i dag av Putins regim mot det ukrainska folket. I förra veckan nåddes vi av hemska rapporter om att Ryssland tvångsadopterat tusentals oskyldiga ukrainska barn efter att ha stulit många av dem ur famnen på deras föräldrar, som ett demografiskt vapen mot den ukrainska befolkningen.

Vi har sedan april tagit del av uppgifter att Ryssland har tvångsdeporterat över en miljon ukrainska medborgare och tvingat in dem i ”filtreringsläger” där civila förhörs i timtal för att rensa ut så kallade nationalister. Detta är ingenting annat än en utrensning av ett folk. Det är också ett krigsbrott och ett brott mot mänskligheten.

De mörka kapitlen i vår gemensamma mänskliga historia skulle ju inte upprepas, men bara om vi valde att komma ihåg den och agera hårt mot antidemokratiska krafter. Det är därför viktigt att vi gemensamt kräver stopp på Rysslands pågående människorättsbrott och kräver att EU-kommissionen och medlemsstaterna agerar för att vår historia inte ska upprepa sig i Ukraina eller någon annanstans på denna planet.

De som ligger bakom dessa vidriga deporteringar och tvångsadoptioner måste sanktioneras omedelbart. Putin måste stoppas. De högerextrema krafternas frammarsch i Europa och i världen likaså. Extremisterna i Ryssland, Ungern, Italien och till och med i mitt land, Sverige, stärks av varandras framgångar.

Rysslands aggression mot Ukraina handlar om ett av de vidrigaste brotten mot internationell rätt. Hela vår trovärdighet och hela det internationella samarbetet står på spel. Ukrainska folket har lidit nog och konsekvenserna av aggressionen mot Ukraina känns av i varenda del av världen. Slava Ukraini.

  Petras Auštrevičius, author. – Madam President, Commissioner, dear colleagues, Putin and his regime are stealing Ukrainian children and the country's future. By forcibly deporting Ukrainian civilians, by changing their citizenship, by allowing the speedy adoption of Ukrainian children, and by rewriting Ukrainian textbooks in the occupied territories of Ukraine, he and his entourage are seeking to destroy the Ukrainian identity and the Ukrainian nation. These actions amount to genocide.

All those who contribute to the implementation of this policy must be subject to EU sanctions and prosecution before a future tribunal.

I call on the EU and its Member States to contribute to a mechanism to facilitate the return of forcibly deported Ukrainian civilians. I express my gratitude to all those who, in spite of personal danger, are restlessly working to locate, forcibly deported Ukrainians, including forcibly adopted children, and to return them safely home.

Ukraine's victory against unprovoked Russian aggression is our common goal. We must continue to support the heroic people of Ukraine so that they and their future – their children – are safe. Slava Ukraini.

  Viola von Cramon-Taubadel, author. – Madam President, Commissioner, dear colleagues, seven months ago, shortly before Russia launched its unprovoked war against Ukraine, I stood here predicting exactly the demise of Russian imperialism. I warned President Putin of the lethal mistake that every warmonger dictator makes sooner or later – the imperial overstretch.

Back then, it was already clear that the brave Ukrainians would not surrender to Putin’s murderous regime. Fast forward to today, Russian troops who killed thousands in Bucha, Irpin, Mariupol are now running away. The Ukrainian bravery unmasked the true face of Putin’s Russia: a wannabe superpower and at the same time a dying empire, pretending to be the world’s second military.

Putin’s attack on Ukraine was not only cruel, it was also extremely stupid. Soon, the Russian imperialism will be buried forever under the Ukrainian sunflowers. But before that happens, the dying empire caught in the corner is dangerous as ever. Because they cannot win over the battlefield, Putin now tries to steal Ukraine’s future. Several million Ukrainians have been forcibly deported, often to the far east of Russia. Deported Ukrainians are put in so-called filtration camps reminiscent of Gulag camps.

Among the deported Ukrainians, there are up to 600 000 children. One cannot imagine the pure evil it takes to abduct children from their countries, separate them from their parents, label them as orphans, forcefully put them up for adoption, and try to erase their Ukrainian identity. This is nothing short of genocide.

No matter how brutal the enemy is, the light will always prevail. The wisdom of Taras Shevchenko, so well preserved under the Russian propaganda banner, once again guides us: ‘Keep fighting, you are sure to win. God helps you in your fight. For fame and freedom march with you and the right is always on your side’. Slava Ukraini!

  Anna Fotyga, author. – Madam President, once more, the method so well known to all of us neighbours of Russia, whole generations of us, is now happening in Ukraine. Over 2 million of forcefully departed people to the hands of the enemy attacking brutally their country. Over half a million kids. Terrified undergoing forced Russification, illegally adopted and terrified because they are so distant from their families, their parents.

Russia has to be defeated in this war, clearly defeated and forced to repeal all legislation and allow, by the pressure of the whole international community, to return all of them home, to their homeland and possibly still to their families. We wish them all the best. God bless Ukraine.

  Andrius Kubilius, on behalf of the PPE Group. – Madam President, dear colleagues, there is no need to repeat that forced deportations of Ukrainians and their children to Russia, to faraway Siberian regions – that this is a huge crime against humanity, and this is a war crime of genocide. There is no difference in between of crimes of deportations to Gulag camps during Stalin’s time and deportations done now during Putin’s time.

We need to speak in a very clear way: Putin’s crimes of deportations, also other war crimes, were born out of the first and major crime of Putin – crime of war aggression. And that is why we need to immediately address the major issue: the creation of Special International Tribunal on Crime of War Aggression. It is the only instrument to target directly the crimes personally of Mr Putin; it’s also to show both to Putin and to his elite that there will be no way to come back to business as usual in between of the West and criminal Putin regime, even after the war.

It’s good that the resolution speaks about such a special tribunal. It would be good if big capitals would also support the creation of such a tribunal. It would be a clear evidence that nobody wants to go to business as usual with a criminal.

  Raphaël Glucksmann, au nom du groupe S&D. – Madame la Présidente, Madame la Commissaire, chers collègues, souvenez-vous du théâtre de Marioupol devant lequel les habitants avaient écrit en gros le mot «Diéti» («Enfants»), espérant un soupçon d’humanité de la part de leurs bourreaux. Souvenez-vous que l’armée russe a bombardé quand même. Gardez en tête que les enfants ukrainiens sont donc des cibles de la guerre russe, comme l’étaient hier les enfants syriens et avant-hier les enfants tchétchènes. Gardez en tête que des dizaines et des dizaines de milliers d’enfants ukrainiens ont été déportés en Russie et que nombre d’entre eux ont été adoptés de force pour être russifiés.

Et alors vous comprendrez que Poutine n’est pas simplement un autocrate dangereux et dur, c’est un criminel contre l’humanité. Que sa guerre n’est pas simplement une guerre, mais la tentative d’anéantir une nation. Que tous les politiciens ou commentateurs européens qui relaient ici sa propagande se rendent complices de ses crimes. Et qu’il y a une place pour lui devant un tribunal pénal international, dans une cellule, et une place pour eux, ses valets européens, dans les poubelles de l’histoire.

  Karin Karlsbro, för Renew-gruppen. – Fru talman! Fru kommissionär, kollegor! Vi håller andan. I realtid ser vi hur den ukrainska armén slår tillbaka. Kvadratmeter för kvadratmeter, gata för gata, by efter by befrias.

Putins krig handlar emellertid inte bara om territorium. Det är inte första gången Ryssland använder hunger och deportationer som vapen. Historien upprepar sig. Det handlar inte om enstaka fall. Vi nås av rapporter om att uppemot två miljoner ukrainska medborgare deporteras till Ryssland, att barn stjäls och adopteras bort. Detta måste få ett slut. Ryssland måste ställas till svars. Alla som befinner sig i ryskt våld måste omedelbart få sina pass tillbaka och släppas fria.

Vi måste fortsätta att ge Ukraina vårt fulla stöd, tills varenda mamma, varenda pappa och varenda unge har kommit hem igen – hem till ett fritt, ett fredligt Ukraina.

  Ryszard Czarnecki, w imieniu grupy ECR. – Pani Przewodnicząca! Pani Komisarz! Szanowni Państwo! Związek Sowiecki, czerwona Rosja, liczył 287 mln mieszkańców, zanim na szczęście upadł. W tej chwili liczy dokładnie dwa razy mniej. Putin mówił wielokrotnie, że największą tragedią był upadek Związku Sowieckiego. W tej chwili ta czerwona, a już teraz putinowska Rosja, usiłuje zwiększyć demograficznie swoje imperium w inny sposób. Właśnie w taki ohydny sposób, o którym moi przedmówcy mówili. Oczywiście także w inny sposób, bo od lat Rosja Putina prowadzi bardzo świadomą politykę migracyjną, która polega na przekupywaniu mieszkańców, obywateli dawnego Związku Sowieckiego i ich potomków, domami, mieszkaniami, pensjami płaconymi przez cały rok. To, co się dzieje w tej chwili w sprawie Ukraińców, którzy są przymusem wywożeni do Rosji, zasługuje na jednoznaczne potępienie naszego Parlamentu.

  Fabio Massimo Castaldo (NI). – Madam President, Madam Commissioner, dear colleagues, according to reliable estimates, several hundred thousands of Ukrainian civilians have been forcibly deported to Russia, especially to the unpopulated regions in the far east of the country. This is also the area from which the overwhelming majority of the reportedly dead Russian soldiers were coming. Furthermore, and even more detestable, more than 250 000 children have been listed for adoption to Russian families, again in the least populous areas of the country.

The plan here is crystal clear. The Russian regime does not plan to stop sending these young men and women to die for a brutal and unjustifiable war. Instead, they have already started to substitute those who fall with other innocent human beings, disrespecting all basic international laws.

Dear colleagues, it is not the first time that this happens. Some of you perfectly know what Russian deportation looks like, since your countries have experienced that during the 20th century. From this House, we have already said, ‘never again’. Yet it is happening right now again. We must stand firm in condemning these atrocities, and we call on the international community to immediately open an investigation and to bring all those responsible, including Putin, of this atrocity accountable in front of the International Criminal Court.

  Janina Ochojska (PPE). – Pani Przewodnicząca! Drogie Koleżanki i drodzy Koledzy! Przytoczone informacje zarówno o obywatelach Ukrainy deportowanych przymusowo do Rosji, jak i o liczbie dzieci, które podzieliły ten sam los, są przerażające i niestety przywołują na myśl zsyłki do gułagów członków różnych narodów w latach 40. ubiegłego wieku. W XXI w. Rosja konsekwentnie realizuje swój plan niszczenia narodu ukraińskiego i jego przyszłych pokoleń. Wyobraźmy sobie, że to wasz syn lub córka, wnuczek albo wnuczka zostaną wam dziś odebrane. Jeśli będziecie mieli więcej szczęścia, zostaniecie deportowani na Syberię, pod granicę z Kazachstanem lub jeszcze dalej w głąb Rosji, ale razem. Tych, którzy mieli mniej szczęścia, czekają lata rozłąki i życia w obcym miejscu. Europo! Rosjanie na twoich oczach wyniszczają naród i deportują twoje dzieci, które, tak jak ty, chciały wolności, równości i niezależności. Kto się o nich upomni, jak nie Ty?

  Radka Maxová (S&D). – Paní předsedající, 200 tisíc, to je počet ukrajinských dětí, které byly násilně odvezeny do Ruska, jak na začátku června prohlásil ukrajinský prezident Volodymyr Zelenskyj. Život v oblastech vojenských konfliktů s sebou nese nejen riziko smrti v důsledku střelby, ale i další rizika. Statisíce dětí po celém světě ročně umírají kvůli nepřímým dopadům války, jako je podvýživa, nemoci, nedostatek lékařské péče nebo hygieny. Děti prchající před válkou jsou vystaveny zvýšenému riziku násilí, zneužívání a vykořisťování a stávají se oběťmi obchodování s lidmi, zejména při pohybu přes hranice. A jak můžeme vidět na případě Putinovy vlády, je zde i riziko nezákonných adopcí.

Vážení kolegové z Rady, Parlamentu, Komise, nesmíme toto přehlížet. Musíme nezákonným adopcím předcházet skrze systém, který by pomohl lépe monitorovat především děti bez rodičů při překročení hranic. A musíme zajistit obětem spravedlnost, tedy vyšetřování pachatelů výše zmíněných zločinů. Podpořme zítra usnesení a pomozme těm, kteří to opravdu potřebují.

  Barry Andrews (Renew). – Madam President and Commissioner, it’s important at times like these to remind ourselves of the humanitarian principles, that is the obligation on humanitarian organisations to demonstrate independence, impartiality, humanity and neutrality, to deliver aid to the places where it’s needed most and to be completely neutral in armed conflict. The reasons for this are to ensure that aid gets to the people who need it most, but also to protect humanitarian workers. But it is relevant in the context of this debate, because humanitarian organisations are relied upon to create humanitarian corridors, but also to access prisoners of war on both sides of a conflict. We know that’s not happening right now. We don’t get the information we need because Russia has no respect whatsoever for humanitarian principles or international humanitarian law.

So that’s why we need to have a discussion with humanitarian organisations so they can set out to us here in the European Parliament, or our committees, exactly what steps they have been taking to try to access the two million children that have been deported out of Ukraine into Russia. We need to hear exactly their evidence.

The second thing we need to do is not to cut our humanitarian aid budget. At the moment, the Commission are proposing the highest cut of any proposed cut under any heading to the 2023 budget to our humanitarian aid budget. We need to put our values in monetary terms sometimes.

  Jadwiga Wiśniewska (ECR). – Pani Przewodnicząca! Pani Komisarz! Szanowni Państwo! Odkąd Rosja napadła na Ukrainę, ponad 2 miliony ukraińskich obywateli zostało deportowanych w głąb Rosji. Ukraińscy cywile przetrzymywani są w obozach filtracyjnych, de facto w gułagach, w których są torturowani i nie mają dostępu do żywności. Proceder filtracji, jaka następuje w obozach, jest taki sam jak w czasach stalinowskich. Ma charakter systematyczny, prowadzony jest z premedytacją i ma na celu wyniszczenie narodu ukraińskiego. Putin chce zniszczenia tożsamości ukraińskiej i rusyfikacji dzieci. Rosja porwała ponad 200 tysięcy ukraińskich dzieci, co stanowi blisko 6% dziecięcej populacji Ukrainy.

Zdecydowanie wszyscy potępiamy przymusowe deportacje cywilów oraz uprowadzenia dzieci i nielegalną adopcję ukraińskich dzieci. Uważamy – wszyscy tutaj się w tej sprawie zgadzamy – że jesteśmy świadkami ludobójstwa narodu ukraińskiego. Najważniejsze jest to, żebyśmy nie byli niemi, żeby nie skończyło się na deklaracjach, słowach wsparcia, słowach pełnych wzruszenia. A tam giną dzieci porywane ze swoich domów, uprowadzane, bez opieki, bez pomocy i bez nadziei.

Dziś Ukraina potrzebuje wsparcia Unii Europejskiej, wszystkich państw członkowskich, takiego wsparcia, jakie daje Polska. Daliśmy schronienie obywatelom ukraińskim, ale Ukraina potrzebuje broni, aby mogła ochronić swoich obywateli. Niech Bóg błogosławi Ukrainie.

  Isabel Wiseler-Lima (PPE). – Madame la Présidente, la guerre d’agression non provoquée et injustifiée lancée par la Fédération de Russie contre l’Ukraine est une atteinte à l’ordre international. Nous devons la condamner sans réserve aucune et aider par tous les moyens le peuple ukrainien à gagner cette guerre, pour la sécurité en Europe et pour la sauvegarde de la démocratie sur notre continent.

Mais les exactions des officiels russes vont bien au-delà des préoccupations quant au maintien de l’ordre international. La notion même de dignité humaine est annihilée quand on se retrouve face aux actes de déportation de civils à des milliers de kilomètres de leur lieu de vie et à l’adoption forcée d’enfants ukrainiens en Russie. Ce sont des actes abjects qui rappellent des temps que nous avions espéré révolus sur le continent européen. Ils sont pourtant commis à grande échelle puisque le chiffre annoncé est de plus d’un million et demi d’Ukrainiens déportés, dont plus de 200 000 enfants.

Ces actes ne peuvent rester impunis. Aussi faut-il ne ménager aucun effort pour rassembler les preuves des crimes commis et traduire le plus rapidement possible les coupables devant un tribunal international.

Zgłoszenia z sali

  Clare Daly (The Left). – Madam President, for me this resolution is a hodgepodge of unverified and wildly exaggerated claims laced with a strong dose of hypocrisy, as the right-wing groups beat their breasts over mass data collection and mistreatment during secret security screening of refugees, all seasoned with a hearty dollop of pure invention.

There's no doubt about it that the stuff the Russians are doing in screening Ukrainians entering Russia is bad: fingerprinting, facial biometrics, invasive background checks, detention – all nasty stuff that would be very familiar to anybody who tried to enter the European Union over the past decades.

There's no question that those detained in screening are having a horrible time. But I don't remember the right wing jumping up and down about the detention filtration camps in the European Union, where refugees are kept for years, where the conditions are so bad that people set fire to themselves to end the horror.

We have a UN statement on this issue – it's a world away from this resolution. There should be an investigation of verified claims, and international bodies need to take human rights seriously. Parliament should stop turning itself into a pathetic parrot parody of a tabloid newspaper.

  Mick Wallace (The Left). – Madam President, there is a huge leap from what the Assistant UN Secretary-General for Human Rights told the Security Council a week ago and what this resolution is claiming. The Secretary-General spoke about human rights violations at the site of security checks of Ukrainians. She also raised concerns that the Russian authorities have adopted a simplified procedure to grant Russian citizenship to children without parental care. Under Article 50 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, the Russian Federation is prohibited from changing these children’s personal status, including nationality. It is also highly concerning that normal procedures around family reunification appear to be disregarded.

But the resolution is stating that between 1 and 2.5 million Ukrainians have been forcibly deported to Russia. These are the ridiculous claims of Kyiv and Washington made with no supporting scientific evidence in the fog of war. We should call on Russia to respect international law and the Global Compact for Migration, as should the EU, and Parliament should not be used to regurgitate unfounded accusations.

(Koniec zgłoszeń z sali)

  Elisa Ferreira, Member of the Commission. – Madam President, honourable Members of the European Parliament, the European Union’s position on Russia’s justified and unprovoked war of aggression against Ukraine is clear: the European Union stands by Ukraine as long as it takes, and the European Union takes action against Russia, the aggressor and the perpetrator of atrocities and crimes against Ukraine and the Ukrainian people.

First, the European Union has adopted the largest sanctions package ever, and nothing, nothing is off the table. Russia is heading for the worst recession since 1990. Second, just last week, the European Union fully suspended the visa facilitation agreement. Third, the European Union is working with partners around the world to counter Russian disinformation, raising awareness that it is Russia’s aggression, not Western sanctions, which is aggravating the food and energy crisis. Fourth, the European Union seeks to isolate Russia in international fora and calling it out for its breaches of international law and international humanitarian law. And finally, the European Union is supporting all efforts on accountability, seeking to document the evidence needed to hold the perpetrators of war crimes accountable.

We have, like the honourable Members, heard the allegations of forced removal to territories under Russian military control or to the Russian Federation itself. We are particularly concerned that the United Nations Human Rights Office has found credible allegations of forced transfers of unaccompanied minors.

We encourage United Nations entities and the non-governmental human rights organisations to pursue their work in documenting these allegations in order to have a solid picture of their scope and their scale. While awaiting further reports on the situation on the ground, we demand that all persons reported disappeared or missing in Ukraine, must be searched for, located and released or returned. Therefore we call for unimpeded access by UN entities, ICRC and civil society, to all areas where civilians are detained. We also demand that any checks and filtrations and any detention that may follow such checks takes place in a legal framework, respecting the principles of necessity and proportionality.

We remind that forcible transfers of civilians is prohibited under international humanitarian law, notably the Geneva Convention. All cases of enforced disappearances must be duly investigated and those responsible therefore held accountable for war crimes.

Let me finally underline the fate of persons in the most vulnerable situations – in this context, namely women and children – they face risks which include sexual exploitation, trafficking, sexual violence far from the public eye. It is our common duty to focus on accountability and on widespread condemnation.

  Przewodnicząca. – Zamykam debatę. Głosowanie odbędzie się w czwartek 15 września 2022 r.