Az ülések szó szerinti jegyzőkönyve

2023. március 15., Szerda - Strasbourg

13. Az Unió védelmi ágazatának megerősítése az ukrajnai háború összefüggésében: a gyártás és az Ukrajnába történő fegyver- és lőszerszállítás felgyorsítása (vita)

  Die Präsidentin. – Als nächster Punkt der Tagesordnung folgt die Aussprache über die Erklärungen des Rates und der Kommission zur Stärkung der Verteidigung der EU vor dem Hintergrund des Kriegs in der Ukraine: Beschleunigung der Produktion und Lieferung von Waffen und Munition an die Ukraine (2023/2609(RSP)).

  Jessika Roswall, President-in-Office of the Council. – Madam President, honourable Members, Commissioner, thank you for raising the issue of speeding up the production and delivery of weapons and ammunition to Ukraine. It comes very timely and only a few days after a crucial discussion on the issue at the Stockholm informal meeting of defence ministers.

At the moment, Ukraine continues to face Russia’s brutal war of aggression with significant casualties amongst the civilian population and regular and indiscriminate attacks on civilian and critical infrastructure. The situation on the ground remains therefore critical, and that was the message that the Ukrainian Minister of Defence Reznikov gave to his EU colleagues last week in Stockholm.

It is absolutely clear that that Ukraine’s ability to protect its territorial integrity depends to a high degree of military assistance, in particular from the EU and Member States.

We have already made a large contribution to expand the number of Western artillery systems, in particular 155 mm-calibre systems, because the reality is that Ukraine is still outnumbered by Russian troops.

This is why EU defence ministers at the meeting in Stockholm welcomed the High Representative’s proposal for a three-track approach that will serve two key objectives: to speed up the delivery and to ensure the joint procurement of artillery ammunition for Ukraine. The first track is European Peace Facility (EPF) assistance measure to incentivise Member States to deliver ammunition to Ukraine from their stocks. The second track is another EPF assistant measure to facilitate the joint procurement of ammunition, building on a project of the European Defence Agency or via a lead nation procuring on behalf of at least three Member States. Regarding the third track, ministers are broadly in favour of measures to help the industry, address supply chain bottlenecks and ramp up production.

Such measures are key for the immediate assistance to Ukraine but also for the long-term development of the European defence industry. We therefore look forward to the concrete measures that the Commission is working on to this effect.

The details of the three-track approach are currently being discussed in the Council and Ministers will return to this issue at the Foreign Affairs Council on 20 March. It is the Presidency expectation that we will be able to reach a political agreement on the main aspects.

Let me finish by underlining, in broader terms, that the Swedish Presidency is absolutely committed to continuing to provide EU support to Ukraine on all various domains and across the various Council formations. I am sure that we can count on Parliament’s strong support for our endeavours. Thank you very much for your attention and I look forward to the debate.

  Mairead McGuinness, Member of the Commission. – Madam President, thank you, Minister, Jessika, thank you, Colleagues, I take this debate on behalf of my colleague, Commissioner Breton and HR/VP Borrell. And as we know, over the last year the entire European Union has mobilised all its tools in support of Ukraine, including considerable military support.

A conservative estimate puts EU Member States’ collective effort and support at EUR 12 billion. However, the Ukrainian Minister of Defence has informed us that they have an urgent need to ensure the stable supply of 155 mm artillery ammunition.

This urgent need calls for coordinated European response and that is what the Commission, together with the High Representative and the European Defence Agency, have recently proposed an ambitious, pragmatic and rapid response around three intrinsically linked areas: immediately transfer ammunition from existing stockpiles; structure demand by placing massive orders with European industry, covering both the needs of Ukraine and those of Member States; increase European production capacity massively and rapidly, which is a prerequisite for these orders to be met.

To provide Ukraine with the right support at speed we need to act in parallel on these three axes. Without an increase in industrial production, we will not create confidence for Member States to transfer more ammunition from their stocks. We want them to know that those stocks will be replenished fast in the face of a threat that is likely to last.

The Defence Joint Procurement Task Force has established a fairly precise industrial mapping of ammunition production capacities, particularly for artillery shells. We identified 15 producers in the 11 Member States. We also know that the current EU production capacity is larger than in many of our non-EU partners. However, almost all of this production is already contracted.

The good news is that the potential of EU industry to produce 155 mm ammunition remains significant, and we need to unlock this potential. Signing large contracts consolidated at European level will send the appropriate signal to industry to take action, but this is not a guarantee of delivery on time.

Our industrial objectives are clear: reduce production time and increase production volumes and, above all, secure the earliest possible availability of the required volumes. In order to do this, we need to support an increase in capacity and address bottlenecks, especially in the value chain. We need to monitor industrial ramp-up efforts and ensure contracting of industrial production conditions.

The Commission is ready to mobilise its regulatory clout and the available resources as appropriate to support the defence industry to ramp up. We are working on all options, including mobilising the EU budget if needed. More specifically, we recently put on the table the European Defence Industry Reinforcement through common Procurement Act. This short-term instrument with EUR 500 million could be used to accelerate industrial production of the required ammunition.

The support of Parliament to reach swift agreement will be essential. If necessary, we are also ready to mobilise other resources. At the same time, we need to be able to mobilise private finance, including from the EIB and banks. To that end, Member State support will be essential.

Finally, we know what industry is doing today. Now we need to know what they will do tomorrow and what they could do tomorrow. In that light, Commissioner Breton has started to visit each of the 15 companies identified by the task force to discuss with them directly and understand their constraints and to see how to help them increase their production capacity. Thank you. I look forward to the debate.

  Michael Gahler, on behalf of the PPE Group. – Madam President, Commissioner, Minister, indeed, time is of the essence to effectively counter the aggressor and for the Ukrainians to push him back from Ukrainian territory. And we have lost time. Too much time last year because the reality was that many Member States, including my own, remained too passive for too long, in spite of strong verbal commitments. The Netherlands – to name one positive example – in 2022 purchased twice as much ammunition in Germany than the German army itself. While Denmark, already in June last year, refurbished M113 transport tanks in a German company in Flensburg for Ukraine, the German government did not give the order to start the refurbishing of 100 Leopard 1 tanks that were stocked in the very same factory, FFG, where the Danish tanks were already refurbished. That practice must end. I hope that last week’s Stockholm informal discussion will lead to decisions that are swiftly implemented, especially for the ammunition that is so desperately needed. And I hope that our industry is really pulling all strings, ramping up capacities and not waiting until they are tasked by whatever government. I can assure them your products will be needed and therefore be purchased for a long period because we cannot assume that the evil empire will perish soon. And we need to deliver to Ukraine as long as it takes for Ukraine to win. And we need to replenish our stocks in time as soon as possible in order to be able to defend ourselves.

Last year, already with a colleague, Sven Simon, we published an article in the German Handelsblatt suggesting we should think of a European Lend-Lease Act, the one that the United States had already in the Second World War to be able to swiftly supply Britain and other allies with the needed weapons. Perhaps you might embark on such a reflection again, a European Lend-Lease act, which would facilitate enormously the purchasing. We need to do what we can as long as it takes. Slava Ukraini!

  Tonino Picula, on behalf of the S&D Group. – Madam President, Commissioner, Minister, we are all aware of our long-standing problems in defence: duplication of resources, lack of coordination and collective action, and low speed of developing them jointly.

For a long time, there was no real need nor political will. Now there is a both but we have institutional obstacles that prevent us from doing it at the needed speed.

The inability of the allies to supply Ukraine with sufficient resources would be a decisive factor in this war. We should do all possible to avoid this scenario.

Our political goal should be clear: we should not only help Ukraine to resist Russian offensive actions, we need to supply Ukraine to win this war. More resources allocation and reorientation of existing defence production to meet the current needs are essential.

In the past year, we have shown that we can act together. Let us not make our efforts go in vain. Slava Ukraini!

  Nathalie Loiseau, au nom du groupe Renew. – Madame la Présidente, il y a le feu à nos portes et nous ne pouvons pas regarder ailleurs. L’Ukraine est assaillie et l’Europe menacée. Nous avons tout à gagner à une victoire de l’Ukraine alors qu’une victoire de la Russie nous ferait perdre notre sécurité et notre place dans le monde.

Dans ce contexte, il nous faut actionner tous les leviers dont nous disposons en même temps. Fournir en urgence des munitions à Kiev, d’où qu’elles viennent, en nous appuyant sur la Facilité européenne de paix. Être capables de tenir dans la durée en augmentant nos productions propres, à la fois pour continuer à aider l’Ukraine, parce que la guerre sera longue, et en nous assurant que nous avons pour nous-mêmes les équipements dont nous avons besoin. Nos industries de défense doivent être encouragées à produire plus en ayant de la visibilité sur des commandes que nous devons passer en commun. C’est le but d’Edirpa, un instrument destiné à nous rendre plus résilients, plus souverains et plus sûrs.

La paix et la liberté n’ont pas de prix, mais elles ont un coût. Notre devoir est de l’assumer et d’expliquer à nos compatriotes pourquoi l’aide militaire à l’Ukraine et le renforcement de nos moyens de défense exigent des efforts importants autant qu’indispensables.

  Viola von Cramon-Taubadel, im Namen der Verts/ALE-Fraktion. – Frau Präsidentin, Frau Kommissarin, liebe Kolleginnen und Kollegen! Mit der Unterzeichnung der UN-Charta verpflichten sich alle Länder in Artikel 2 Absatz 4 dazu, Gewalt in internationalen Beziehungen zu unterlassen. Artikel 51 bestärkt das Recht von Staaten zur Selbstverteidigung. Für mich ist die Situation absolut klar. Wir unterstützen die Ukraine in ihrem Recht auf Selbstverteidigung.

Als Grüne teilweise noch etwas schwer zu vermitteln, aber es bleibt wichtig, die Ukraine militärisch zu stärken. Denn wir haben das Recht, in Frieden zu leben, und das Recht, uns zu verteidigen, wenn unser Leben und dieser Frieden angegriffen werden. Jeder Panzer, jede Drohne, jede Patrone, die wir der Ukraine zur Verfügung stellen, rettet unzählige ukrainische Leben. Jede Unterstützung, ob finanziell oder militärisch, ist eine Investition in die Sicherheit Europas. Wenn die Ukraine fällt, werden auch weitere Länder fallen.

Die Welt, wie wir sie vor 2022 kannten, gibt es nicht mehr. Putin wählte den Krieg statt Frieden, die Konfrontation statt Zusammenarbeit, Imperialismus statt einer regelbasierten Ordnung. In dieser neuen Welt, in der der Stärkere Recht haben will, können wir uns den Luxus nicht leisten, unbewaffnet zu sein und unsere Verbündeten nicht zu beschützen. Slawa Ukrajini.

  Zdzisław Krasnodębski, w imieniu grupy ECR. – Pani Przewodnicząca! Muszę powiedzieć, że gdyby koledzy byli tak zdecydowani parę lat temu, to w ogóle by do tej wojny nie doszło. Nie musielibyśmy mówić „sława Ukrainie”, bo Ukraina nie byłaby przedmiotem agresji rosyjskiej. Zupełnie niedawne były czasy, kiedy armia, przemysł obronny wydawały się przeżytkiem, zwłaszcza tradycyjne rodzaje broni, broń pancerna, artyleria, wojska terytorialne. I Europa żyła w absurdalnym poczuciu bezpieczeństwa. W Berlinie, w Paryżu, w Brukseli wierzono w siłę perswazji, w (słowa niezrozumiałe) handel , w dobre intencje Rosji. Tylko myśmy w Europie środkowo-wschodniej nie mogli tego zrozumieć. A dzisiaj się okazuje, że nie ma wystarczającej ilości amunicji, a także zdolności do jej szybkiej produkcji, że rzekoma potęga przemysłowa, Unia Europejska, nie ma środków, by wesprzeć Ukrainę szybko – być może teraz zaczniemy – w jej walce, że trzeba remontować stare czołgi, które rdzewiały dotąd spokojnie. I okazuje się, że jest potrzebna armia zdolna do obrony terytorium i prowadzenia konwencjonalnej wojny i że wojsko nie jest tylko do prowadzenia misji pokojowej.

Więc musimy, po pierwsze, zapewnić – tak szybko jak to jest możliwe – zaopatrzenie Ukrainy w amunicję i sprzęt wojskowy. I tutaj jesteśmy zgodni. I cieszę się, że jest ta decyzja ministrów obrony, słusznie podjęta poza Parlamentem Europejskim, gdyż stracilibyśmy tylko niepotrzebnie dużo czasu, i niestety przykład EDIRPY to potwierdza. Po drugie, potrzebujemy także odbudowy i rozbudowy przemysłu obronnego krajów europejskich w długofalowej strategii. I tu jest potrzebna współpraca z Parlamentem Europejskim. Po trzecie, musimy pracować nad wspólną kulturą strategiczną narodów europejskich, wyciągając wnioski z błędów polityki appeasementu ostatnich dekad. Bez wspólnej kultury strategicznej nie będzie ani wspólnej polityki bezpieczeństwa z prawdziwego zdarzenia, ani wspólnej polityki zagranicznej.

  Özlem Demirel, im Namen der Fraktion The Left. – Frau Präsidentin! 384 Tage und keine einzige diplomatische Maßnahme der EU zur Beendigung des Krieges in der Ukraine. Stattdessen hat die EU die Verunsicherung in der Bevölkerung hier massiv genutzt, um die sogenannte Diplomatiemacht EU in eine Militärunion umzuwandeln, um die gesellschaftlichen Hürden gegen Militarismus und bisherige Tabus gegen Waffenlieferungen in Kriegsgebiete beiseite zu schieben.

Für die vielen bedeutet Krieg Tod, Leid, Verwüstung, für einige wenige ist Krieg die Party, um in Chefetagen die Sektkorken knallen zu lassen. So am offenkundigsten für die Rüstungsindustrie. Seit dem Überfall Russlands auf die Ukraine ist die Rheinmetall-Aktie in den DAX aufgestiegen. Ihr Wert hat sich verdoppelt. Jetzt plant Rheinmetall sogar eine Panzerfabrik in der Ukraine. Sie reden davon, auch die Rüstungsindustrie in der EU auszubauen.

Die Menschen in der EU fordern aber Frieden! Denn nur Frieden bedeutet Sicherheit für die Menschen. Sie fordern soziale Gerechtigkeit und nicht Kriegsgeschrei. Es ist kein Zufall, dass der Roman von Erich Maria Remarque Im Westen nichts Neues den Oscar erhalten hat. Die Menschen in Europa haben aus ihrer Geschichte gelernt. Was haben Sie gelernt?

  Елена Йончева (S&D). – Г-жо Председател, колеги, днес всички говорят, че искат мир в Украйна и зареждат боеприпаси в оръжията на Украйна. Европа се е превърнала в снабдител, а трябва да е лидер, да предложи решения......

(Председателят прекъсва изказването заради шум в залата.)

  President. – Sorry, I would like you to start again, please. And I just really say to those quarrelling not to do so here in the plenary. We listen to the speakers. So if you could start again, please.

  Елена Йончева (S&D). – Г-жо Председател, колеги, днес всички говорят, че искат мир в Украйна и зареждат боеприпаси в оръжията на Украйна. Европа се е превърнала в снабдител, а трябва да е лидер, да предложи решения. Европейците не искат война в Европа. Държавите, които бяха определени да бъдат на предната отбранителна линия, не искат война. Българите също не желаят да бъдат въвличани в този конфликт и всички ние искаме, настояваме да се сложи край на тази жестокост, на тази бруталност в Украйна.

Един мъдър световен лидер, папа Франциск, ни каза наскоро: „Краят на войната може да бъде постигнат само чрез конкретни мирни инициативи.“ Милиарди долари изпратихме в помощ на Украйна и въпреки това, въпреки това ескалацията се засилва. Прекратяването на огъня, търсенето на компромисни решения е пътят, който може да спаси Украйна и да предотврати самоунищожението. Тази война няма да има победители. Никой не е спечелил война срещу огромна ядрена сила. Европейският съюз е създаден, за да съхрани мира. Може би все още имаме шанс да го направим. Може би.

  Guy Verhofstadt (Renew). – Madam President, the problems that Mr Gahler and Ms Loiseau have indicated – a lack of ammunition that is there for the moment, the fact that some countries who make ammunition don’t want to send it to Ukraine, like Switzerland – this is all proof of the fact that we have an enormous problem in Europe, and that’s the lack of a European defence community. Without the help of the Americans, this war would be already over and in the wrong direction, with the wrong result. We don’t have a European defence community. And so, what I hope is that the Commission comes forward, as fast as possible, during the war, by the end of the war, with a strategic concept of creating a European defence community. It’s not because you buy together in the EPF some weapons that you have a European defence community. It’s a good measure, but it’s not enough. The training of soldiers, it is good that we do that. But that’s not a European defence community. A European defence community is putting together the EUR 250 billion we spend on defence. We spend 30% of the Americans on defence and can only do 10% of the operations of the American Army. Why? Duplication, duplication, duplication. One hundred and thirteen weapon systems – the problem in Ukraine today. Also in ammunition.

And so what the European Commission and the European institutions and the European Council have to do is, as fast as possible, before the end of the war, come up with a strategic concept for European defence – not in contradiction with NATO, but as the European pillar of NATO. That has to be the lesson of this brutal war and this invasion of Russia in Ukraine.

  Nicolae Ştefănuță (Verts/ALE). – Doamna Yoncheva, ce ironie să pomeniți Nichts neues im Westen, și să nu spuneți că acolo erau soldați, trei soldați la o pușcă, în Primul Război Mondial.

Domnule Wallace, ce ironie să vă pese de săracii lumii, de cei din Sudul slab dezvoltat și să îl sprijiniți pe Putin în această casă și să spuneți că ucrainenii nu au nevoie de ajutor. Statele membre care au stocuri de armă, la ce le țineți? Pentru ce zi le țineți? Acum, când mor alții pentru interesele voastre, la ce bun le mai țineți acasă?

Noi trebuie să ajutăm Europa, pe Ucraina cu Peace Facility, Facilitatea Europeană pentru Pace, iar statele membre trebuie să livreze tot ce pot. Și președintele Zelenski spus foarte clar care îi sunt nevoile: artileria este numărul 1– sisteme, cât și muniție, precum obuze în cantități mari, pentru a opri Rusia. Nu pentru a trage în teritoriul lor, ci pentru a-i da afară din al nostru. Despre asta este vorba.

(Vorbitorul a fost de acord să răspundă unei intervenții de tip „cartonaș albastru”)

  Mick Wallace (The Left), blue-card speech. – I’m actually surprised, Nicolae, that you tell lies about me. I have never in my life said a good word about Putin, but you’re buying into the mainstream media narrative that because we fight for peace, we’re accused of being Putin puppets. We have no interest in Putin or in what Russia is up to. We’ve condemned the war. It’s completely illegal. Why are you buying in? Are you trying to play it to your own media by telling lies about me? What’s wrong with you? And if you’re so goddamn fond of the war, why aren’t you over there fighting yourself?

  Nicolae Ştefănuță (Verts/ALE), blue-card reply. – I think you are Irish, if my memory serves me well, but you might have been Chamberlain in the 1930s proclaiming peace, a peace that is so elusive that it led to the biggest catastrophe of the Second World War because actions were not taken when the time was right. How did the extreme left in this house become equal to the extreme right of other days?

  Javi López (S&D). – Señora presidenta, la invasión de Ucrania ha sido probablemente la sacudida geoestratégica más importante para Europa desde el fin de la caída del Muro de Berlín. Pero también ha evidenciado nuestras carencias y nuestros retos en materia de defensa y de seguridad. Un país agredido y un país agresor.

Y obviamente, Europa busca la paz: una paz justa, que respete los principios de soberanía e integridad territorial. Pero para buscar una paz justa, hoy, son indispensables el apoyo a aquel que se defiende en legítima defensa y la asistencia militar que se ha dado y se debe continuar dando a Ucrania. Estar en contra de la asistencia militar no es estar a favor de la paz, es aceptar, por la vía de los hechos, que Ucrania sea un país sometido a la barbarie y la brutalidad: eso es lo que supone hoy.

No solo ha sido, obviamente, una señal de alerta; también es un llamamiento a la acción, a la acción en materia de defensa para construir capacidades propias, una industria propia, para utilizar, obviamente, las economías de escala y coordinar nuestras compras para continuar asistiendo a aquel que continúa defendiéndose en legítima defensa.

  Ivars Ijabs (Renew). – Priekšsēdētājas kundze! Cienījamā komisāres kundze! Miers Eiropā šobrīd ir atkarīgs no Ukrainas aizsardzības spējām, un Ukraina Bahmutā šobrīd aizstāv visus mūs, lai mēs šeit varētu sēdēt un lemt. Ir nožēlojami, ka Eiropas Aizsardzības aģentūra šajos 13 mēnešos nav spējusi nonākt līdz kopīgiem aizsardzības iepirkumiem. Tāpēc ir jārīkojas mums — Eiropas Parlamentam, ar Eiropas Aizsardzības industrijas stiprināšanas likumu ar kopīgiem iepirkumiem, kuram ir jātiek pieņemtam pēc iespējas ātrāk.

Mums tajā likumā ir jālīdzsvaro, no vienas puses, protams, šis tūlītējais uzdevums atjaunot tos aizsardzības materiālu krājums, kas ir nosūtīti Ukrainai no dalībvalstīm, no otras puses — tas ir jautājums par vidēja termiņa uzdevumu attīstīt mūsu aizsardzības industriju šeit, Eiropā, mūsu ražošanas jaudas. Tie 500 miljoni, kas ir piedāvāti no Komisijas, protams, ir niecīga summa, ņemot vērā tās Ukrainas aizsardzības vajadzības. Bet mums ir jāsāk beidzot rīkoties un nevis jāgaida uz kaut kādām lielākām summām kaut kad tālā, nezināmā nākotnē.

  Reinhard Bütikofer (Verts/ALE). – Frau Präsidentin, verehrte Kolleginnen und Kollegen! Es ist in der Tat schlimm, dass wir die Kapazität unserer Rüstungsindustrie hochfahren müssen. Aber wir tun das nicht, weil die EU plötzlich kriegsgeil geworden wäre, sondern wir müssen das tun, weil Russland zum Aggressor geworden ist, der nicht nur die Ukraine von der Landkarte löschen will, sondern die ganze europäische Friedens- und Sicherheitsarchitektur zerstören will. Deswegen müssen wir das tun.

Ich frage mich, wieso Sie eigentlich ihre Forderungen nicht an das faschistische Regime in Moskau richten, wieso Sie die ganze Zeit so tun, als läge es in der Macht der EU, den Krieg zu beenden! Haben Sie schon einmal zur Kenntnis genommen, dass die Ukraine das Recht auf Selbstverteidigung hat, dass die UNO-Charta verlangt, dass Russland sich zurückziehen muss, die nationale Souveränität und die territoriale Integrität der Ukraine akzeptieren muss? Wenn Sie so hochtrabende Worte im Mund führen, warum sagen Sie das nicht ein einziges Mal?

Nach der Logik, die Sie vertreten, hätte man die Anti-Hitler-Koalition verurteilen müssen, weil sie den Aggressor mit Waffen bekämpft? Das hat nichts mit Friedenspolitik zu tun, Frau Demirel; die Lügen, die Sie hier verbreiten, sind die Lügen der fünften Kolonne Moskaus.

  Die Präsidentin. – Die ordentliche Rednerliste ist damit geschlossen.

Blaue Karten werden an jene Rednerinnen und Redner gegeben, die noch nicht die Gelegenheit hatten, sich in der Debatte zu Wort zu melden.

Spontane Wortmeldungen

  Katarína Roth Neveďalová (S&D). – Vážená pani predsedajúca, ja absolútne nesúhlasím s tým, čo tu všetci rozprávajú, že by sme mali spoločne obstarávať zbrane. Vidíme, ako to dopadlo so spoločným obstaraním vakcín. Ale hlavne v prvom rade si myslím, že my nie sme inštitúcia, ktorá sa má zaoberať vojenskými a obrannými vôbec vecami. Veď my máme sami napísané v našich zmluvách, že našou obrannou politikou je udržiavanie mieru, predchádzanie konfliktom, vojenské poradenstvo, odzbrojovanie a humanitárna pomoc. My tu ideme proti niečomu, čo vôbec ani nemáme robiť. To znamená, že ako toto vysvetlíme občanom? Ja súhlasím, že treba Ukrajine pomáhať, ale nemyslím si, že tým, že teraz Európska únia spoločne začne obstarávať zbrane, že to je niečo, čo je riešením pre tento konflikt, ktorý sa na Ukrajine momentálne deje. Nesúhlasím s tým. Myslím si, že vojenskou inštitúciou je NATO. Krajiny Európskej únie, ktoré chceli byť v NATO, v ňom sú, tie, ktoré chceli vojensky spolupracovať, spolupracujú a nie je naším miestom a naším právom, aby sme sa vôbec zaoberali takýmito otázkami. To nám občania nedali.

  Mick Wallace (The Left). – Madam President, Russia invaded Ukraine; it was illegal, it was 100% wrong and we’ve condemned it from day one. We’ve also condemned the fact that the EU has done so little to develop the dialogue and diplomacy to bring it to an end.

Armoured cars, tanks and guns did not bring peace to the streets of Belfast and Derry. They brought misery, that’s what they brought. And only poor people die in these wars, whether they like it or not. The middle class and the rich don’t fight in these wars.

At the recent Munich Security Conference, when asked why Namibia abstained at the UN on the vote regarding the war, then Namibian Prime Minister said our focus is on resolving the problem, not on shifting blame. The money used to buy weapons, she said, could be better utilised to promote development in Ukraine, in Africa, in Asia and other places in Europe itself where many people are experiencing hardships.

This is madness. We have lost the plot in here. We want peace and we’re not supporting Putin and we’re not Putin’s puppets, we have no respect for him, but we want peace and not war.

  Clare Daly (The Left). – Madam President, listening to the cheerleading in here, safe and secure thousands of miles away from the front line, I think it would be a useful exercise for us to remind ourselves about what ordinary Ukrainians are experiencing.

The Economist’s reports of forced recruitment across the country. Draftees with no experience or training are being sent to the front in what a UK minister calls WWI-levels of attrition. Casualty figures are secret but we know there are estimates of about 120 000. Battalion commanders tell the Washington Post of recruits fleeing positions en masse. Politico reports a crackdown on deserters.

These are human beings and there is a shameful lack of empathy for ordinary people in the war rhetoric in here. The debate is about keeping the weapons flowing to keep the war going. Ukraine is burning through a generation of men; sons, husbands, brothers who can never be replaced. This cannot go on indefinitely. And you sickening war generals who sit in here and will these men to our debts, you make me sick! We need peace. We need dialogue, however unpleasant that may be.

  Die Präsidentin. – Mit diesen leidenschaftlichen Worten wird nun die Debatte geschlossen, und ich möchte nun alle darauf aufmerksam machen, dass die Geschäftsordnung den gegenseitigen Respekt in der Debatte vorschreibt, und daran möchte ich alle Abgeordneten erinnern.

(Ende der spontanen Wortmeldungen)

  Mairead McGuinness, Member of the Commission. – Madam President, I think we should reflect on the fact that we are very privileged in this House, that we can have different views and nobody stops us having those opinions. That is not the case elsewhere and indeed in Russia. So to close this debate, I have listened very carefully to all of the comments, including those who ask questions about the alternatives. We all want peace. I think there is nobody who does not want peace in this room. But, of course, we are concerned about helping Ukraine in what is an illegal invasion of their sovereign territory. Just to repeat the point that I made in my opening remarks: we fully support the three—track proposals presented to Member States and we would hope for the support of this House in that regard.

  Jessika Roswall, President-in-Office of the Council. – Madam President, Commissioner, honourable members, thank you very much for the debate. I think it’s very good that we have the possibility to talk about Ukraine and the ways to speed up the delivery and production of weapons and ammunition.

EU support for Ukraine in all the relevant domains and for as long as necessary is, and will remain, a clear priority for the Council and indeed for the Swedish Presidency. On the particular issue of military support and delivery of ammunition, we will spare no effort in the coming days, working with Member States, the High Representative and the Commission to deliver swift results.

Together with our partners, we must continue to increase the pressure on Russia through sanctions and to make sure that the sanctions already in place are implemented and followed properly. In dialogue with the partners and in line with EU and international law, we continue our efforts to explore our options to use frozen and immobilized Russian assets for the reconstruction of Ukraine.

Those responsible for war crimes and other more serious crimes will be held to account. We will continue supporting the investigation by the International Criminal Court. There can be no impunity for the crimes committed under Russian occupation. We also need to work to ensure accountability for the crime of aggression. The agreement to establish an international centre for the prosecution of the crime of aggression against Ukraine is important in this regard.

The EU will continue to strengthen our political, financial and humanitarian, legal and military support for Ukraine. It is of utmost importance that the reconstruction of Ukraine can begin as soon as possible, and here the EU has a crucial role to play, together with our international partners. The EU and its Member States have stood by Ukraine from day one. So has this Parliament.

Every day, as we witness brutal acts by the Russian war machine, we are reminded of the fact that Ukraine is not only fighting for their freedom, their land and their right to self-determination; they are also fighting for our shared European values. This is why we say that we will continue to stand by Ukraine for as long as it takes.

  Die Präsidentin. – Nun, jetzt quasi eine Minute nach 16, also nachdem diese Aussprache jetzt geschlossen wurde, möchte ich nochmals und zwar nach Artikel 173 der Geschäftsordnung Frau Demirel das Wort geben, und zwar geht es um eine persönliche Bemerkung.

Mitglieder, die zu einer persönlichen Bemerkung um das Wort bitten – und das war offensichtlich das Zeichen, das sie mir gegeben hat und nicht eine nochmalige Wortmeldung im Verfahren der spontanen Wortmeldungen – haben das Recht, sich am Ende der Aussprache über diesen Tagesordnungspunkt, der gerade behandelt wird, zu Wort zu melden, allerdings nur persönlich. Das heißt, nicht zum Gegenstand der Aussprache, sondern nur auf diese persönlich bezogene Bemerkung, die Ihnen gegenüber von anderen Rednern zum Ausdruck gebracht wurde.

  Özlem Demirel (The Left). – Frau Präsidentin! Herr Bütikofer meinte eben, mich als die fünfte Kolonne Russlands, Putins, bezeichnen zu müssen, weil ich für den Frieden und gegen den Militarismus aufstehe. Ich möchte Sie darauf hinweisen, Herr Bütikofer, dass ich zu denjenigen Politikerinnen und Politikern dieses Parlaments gehöre, die gegen jedes Regime niemals ein Blatt vor den Mund genommen haben. Selbstverständlich kritisiere ich das Putin-Regime für den Überfall auf die Ukraine.

Ich möchte aber nicht, dass Sie hier als Parlament diesen Überfall dafür ausnutzen, um die EU zu einer Militärunion umzurüsten. Ich möchte nicht ein Blatt vor den Mund nehmen, wenn Sie diesen Angriff und das Leid der Menschen in der Ukraine für eigene geopolitische Interessen missbrauchen.

Ich schweige nicht zu Herrn Putin, ich schweige auch nicht zu Herrn Erdoğan, ich schweige zu keinem Regime! Ich schweige auch nicht über die Politik der USA, die Sie als Premiumpartner bezeichnen. Wie viele völkerrechtswidrige Kriege haben die USA geführt, Herr Bütikofer? Wie oft haben Sie das verurteilt?

  Die Präsidentin. – Mit dieser persönlichen Bemerkung ist die Aussprache nun endgültig geschlossen.