Tuarascáil focal ar fhocal na n-imeachtaí

Dé Máirt, 17 Deireadh Fómhair 2023 - Strasbourg

13. Tráth na gCeisteanna leis na Coimisinéirí - Bearta Eorpacha chun teacht chun cinn na coireachta eagraithe a chosc agus a chomhrac

  President. – The next item is Question Time with the Commission. The topic for today is European measures to prevent and to fight the rise of organised crime. I very much welcome Vice-President Schinas. You know the rules. I have a note with all the explanations, but will just recall that we will have follow-up questions in the first round only, with the second question linked to the first one. I would ask you, of course, to stick to the allocated times.

  Francisco José Millán Mon (PPE). – Señor vicepresidente, celebro mucho que usted esté hoy con nosotros. La delincuencia organizada constituye un problema de seguridad muy grave en la Unión Europea.

Es evidente su carácter transnacional, que, además, aprovecha el mercado único y Schengen. La cooperación y el intercambio de información entre los Estados miembros deben incrementarse.

Quiero detenerme en la amenaza del narcotráfico, que plantea muchos problemas de seguridad que sufre América Latina. Regularmente, leemos en la prensa noticias sobre importantes alijos de cocaína procedentes de América Latina que se interceptan en Algeciras, Hamburgo, Amberes o Róterdam. Por ello, los europeos y los latinoamericanos debemos dar un salto cualitativo conjunto en la lucha contra el narcotráfico e incrementar, por ejemplo, los controles en los puertos.

Resulta imprescindible también aumentar la cooperación triangular con los Estados Unidos en materia de droga. Desgraciadamente, me parece que el lenguaje del comunicado conjunto de la cumbre UE—CELAC era muy continuista en materia de delincuencia organizada. Veo que hace un par de semanas hubo una reunión entre ministros del Interior de la Unión Europea y catorce de sus homólogos latinoamericanos, el llamado Comité Latinoamericano de Seguridad Interior.

¿Qué opina, señor vicepresidente, sobre la necesidad de incrementar la cooperación entre ambas orillas del Atlántico en materia de lucha contra la delincuencia organizada y, en especial, el narcotráfico?

  Margaritis Schinas, vicepresidente de la Comisión. – Señor Millán Mon, le agradezco su pregunta. Efectivamente, la delincuencia relacionada con la droga es una plaga en nuestras calles. Y, desgraciadamente, la Unión Europea ha logrado un récord negativo, porque desde el año 2020 nos hemos convertido en el mayor mercado de consumo de cocaína del mundo, dejando atrás a los Estados Unidos.

Y tenemos otro problema en Europa: tenemos una oferta grande de droga, lo que hace que baje el precio en el mercado e induce al consumo, sobre todo en nuestros puertos del mar del Norte, aunque no exclusivamente. Esto ya se está convirtiendo en una amenaza de seguridad nacional y social.

Nuestra respuesta se basa en esta estrategia preparada hace un par de años y que completaremos con una nueva iniciativa que anunciaremos mañana por la mañana: una hoja de ruta, o roadmap, que planteará nuevas iniciativas como, por ejemplo, la creación de una alianza de puertos y la cooperación entre los puertos europeos; trabajar más en la prevención; luchar más contra las redes y no los individuos que están relacionados con la droga; y, por último, como bien señala, trabajar con nuestros socios de América Latina de manera mucho más enérgica, mucho más implicada.

La presidenta Von der Leyen y la comisaria Ylva Johansson ya visitaron estos países de América Latina. Yo anuncio a esta Casa que a finales de este mes visitaré Colombia, México, Perú y Brasil, precisamente para seguir trabajando para asegurarnos de que esta es una lucha europea, pero también una lucha global.

  Francisco José Millán Mon (PPE). – Señor Schinas, un comentario adicional: celebro mucho esta iniciativa en materia de puertos. Creo que es muy útil. Mucha de esta cocaína está viniendo por ahí. Siempre he hablado de la necesidad de una gran cooperación de las fachadas atlánticas, incluidos también los Estados Unidos e incluso, por qué no, los países del golfo de Guinea. Una alianza cuadrangular que implicaría también a países africanos.

Y me parece que el tema de los puertos es vital, y creo que tenemos que incrementar el número de contenedores. No puede ser que solo se chequeen o controlen el 5 % o el 3 % de los contenedores. Hay que chequear bastante más.

  Margaritis Schinas, vicepresidente de la Comisión. –Señor Millán Mon, quiero celebrar esta iniciativa de la alianza europea de los puertos y quiero dar las gracias públicamente al comisario Paolo Gentiloni, que trabajó mucho conmigo para elaborar los detalles de esta nueva herramienta que ponemos en marcha a partir de mañana.

Efectivamente, la idea de esta alianza entre los puertos es precisamente obligar a las autoridades portuarias y aduaneras, que se enfrentan al mismo tipo de problemas, a organizar el mismo tipo de respuestas a través del intercambio de información, de procedimientos estandarizados y de una presencia informática y digital mucho más importante.

Por lo que se refiere al tema geográfico, efectivamente, las rutas son las conocidas. Trabajaremos como Unión Europea con todos. Con todos. No dejaremos a nadie fuera de este esfuerzo.

Acabo de completar una visita a cinco países de África occidental en la que precisamente se han abordado temas no solo de cooperación en el sector de la inmigración, sino también de seguridad. Y he encontrado interlocutores muy receptivos dispuestos a trabajar con nosotros. Esta es una lucha que se va a identificar a partir de mañana, pero no es una lucha que vaya a terminar pronto. Tenemos mucho que hacer todavía.

  Heléne Fritzon (S&D). – Herr talman! Kommissionär! Tack för det viktiga arbete som kommissionen gör i kampen mot terrorn, och nu är det viktigare än någonsin i Europa. I Sverige har vi en situation där barn skjuter barn, och den organiserade brottsligheten gör att Sverige befinner sig i ett nationellt nödläge.

Som socialdemokrat vet jag att den nationella välfärden med skola och föreningsliv är det starkaste verktyget för att vaccinera våra lokalsamhällen mot våld och gängkriminalitet. Men jag vet också att det krävs politisk samling, polisiärt arbete och ett europeiskt samarbete, för vapen, droger, brottslingar och pengar rör sig hela tiden över gränserna.

Så min fråga blir: Vad ser kommissionen att ni kan göra här och nu för att stötta Sverige i den mycket akuta kamp som vi för mot gängkriminalitet?

  Margaritis Schinas, Vice-President of the Commission. – Mr President, I thank Ms Fritzon for her remarks. For us, organised crime increasingly looks like a multinational business, with global supply chains and increased technological capabilities that allow them to hide their crimes.

The bigger the threat of organised crime, the stronger our response should be at all levels: European, national and regional. At European level, we’re fighting organised crime by exchanging information across borders, namely using our valuable Schengen Information System, which now includes biometric data.

As you rightly said, we are also fighting organised crime by engaging with local communities and we will host a major crime prevention conference next year. We are fighting drug trafficking very much along the lines I mentioned in my reply to your colleague Millán Mon a second ago.

We are infiltrating criminal communication networks like gaining lawful, I repeat, lawful police access to EncroChat and Sky ECC. We are fighting organised crime by reinforcing international law enforcement and judicial cooperation through our law enforcement agencies, Europol and Frontex, and working closely with Interpol.

And we are fighting international crime by following the money. Following the money is the safest way to fight the criminals. The new anti-money laundering legislation and the call has already been on the table, and I take this opportunity to call for the swift adoption of these proposals by this House.

  Heléne Fritzon (S&D). – Herr talman! Jag vill tacka kommissionären för svaret. Det är otroligt viktigt för oss i Sverige med det stöd som vi har från kommissionen när det gäller insatser, men också att vi har lagar, regler och verktyg på plats.

Jag ser gärna att vår kommissionär gör ett besök i Sverige. Det är ett mycket akut läge med våld och skjutningar. Jag vet att jag kan tala för alla föräldrar; man har en klump i magen varje dag när man vaknar upp till nyheter om att man har skjutit en tonåring, ett barn, igen.

Så jag ser fram emot just konferensen, men också att de här åtgärderna kommer på plats, och att vi kan inleda ett väldigt snabbt samarbete direkt med Sverige, och naturligtvis med de medlemsstater som är i samma situation eller en liknande situation.

  Margaritis Schinas, Vice-President of the Commission. – Mr President, Ms Fritzon, let me assure you that Sweden is not alone in fighting these organised criminal gangs and in fighting organised crime.

Let me also assure you and welcome your invitation to visit: this is something indeed that I have also discussed with the government and I would be delighted to come.

I think by now it is becoming very clear that the fight against organised crime is a multidimensional equation, a multifactorial equation. I understand that there is a tendency at times to simplify the complexity around fighting organised crime. I understand that there are voices that like to project very simple solutions to very complex realities.

I have never followed this school of populism. I have always engaged in solutions, and solutions do not come through declaratory politics, through hate, through tensions and through friction, but by working together at all levels amongst ourselves, with our Member States, with national and regional communities.

  Barry Andrews (Renew). – Mr President, Commissioner, I want to ask a question about the possibility of an EU extradition treaty with the United Arab Emirates. As you know, a number of EU countries have already bilaterally signed extradition treaties with the UAE: Belgium, Netherlands and Denmark. A lot of these countries have in common that many of the leaders of organised crime gangs are currently in Dubai, in the United Arab Emirates.

In Ireland, the Kinahan crime gang are a global drugs and arms cartel and their activities have contributed to a cocaine epidemic in Ireland. As I am sure you aware, the ministers from the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Italy, Spain and France met in Antwerp in June for a discussion on organised crime and they co-signed a declaration supporting an EU extradition agreement with the United Arab Emirates.

So I would be keen to hear your views about whether or not you think this is appropriate. I'm aware of the safeguards that are necessary from human rights and the reciprocal demands from the UAE. But already Member States are doing this and it would be of tremendous help.

  Margaritis Schinas, Vice-President of the Commission. – Today with some countries, clearly there is still less law enforcement and judicial cooperation, and criminals are aware of this and therefore use those countries as safe havens to escape investigations. The Commission will therefore work with these non-EU countries – I mentioned some of them earlier – to jointly reinforce international law enforcement and judicial cooperation, notably regarding financial investigation, recovery of criminal assets outside the EU, liaison officers from our Member States deployed in non-EU countries.

We furthermore explore the possibility of launching negotiations for the conclusion of specific EU extradition agreements and promote the universal signing and ratification of the Council of Europe Convention in the area of mutual legal assistance, extradition, freezing and compensation.

The honourable Member would clearly factor into his analysis that extraditing people to countries where the death penalty applies creates an additional complication.

  Barry Andrews (Renew). – Mr President. I am aware of that, but as I mentioned, a number of Member States have already signed bilateral extradition treaties that would have the same anxiety that you’ve just underlined. According to the Belgian Justice Minister, and I quote: ‘if I talk to my colleagues in Italy, Spain, Germany and France, they all have a wish list of the people that are hiding in Dubai, and they are not able to move on them to see them extradited to Europe’. I do accept points you’ve made, but I just want to add that by way of clarification.

  Margaritis Schinas, Vice-President of the Commission. – Mr President, I would like to reiterate that we at the Commission stand ready to explore all options. But under the condition that the conditions for the respect of the fundamental rights would also have to be fulfilled.

  Piernicola Pedicini (Verts/ALE). – Abbiamo certamente bisogno di una risposta europea al crimine organizzato, perché è un crimine che supera i confini nazionali.

Io provengo da un territorio nel quale si sono organizzate la mafia, la camorra, la 'ndrangheta, la Sacra corona unita e posso perciò dire con certezza che le mafie si nutrono di due ingredienti che però non figurano tutti in quelli elencati nel programma EMPACT.

Il primo è la povertà dei territori di provenienza e perciò i complici delle mafie sono i responsabili di quella povertà. Sono responsabili tutti quei governi che sottraggono risorse umane ed economiche, che tagliano sull'istruzione, che tagliano sulla sanità, che tagliano sul lavoro.

Il secondo ingrediente è costituito da tutti quei governi che usano il crimine organizzato per fare il lavoro sporco. Sto parlando di traffico delle armi con l'obiettivo di destabilizzare i governi in giro per il mondo. Se davvero l'Unione europea vuole combattere le mafie, deve essere pronta a denunciare quei governi amici che sono dietro le guerre, che armano le guerre, che finanziano le guerre e che provocano le guerre perché lo fanno con lo strumento del crimine organizzato.

Mi chiedo se la Commissione è al corrente di tutto questo.

  Margaritis Schinas, Vice-President of the Commission. – Well, if I understood the question right, corruption is endemic and feeds the organised crime network. This is like a sequence, a closed cycle where corruption feeds illegal activities. Illegal activities generate a certain volume of revenues, which then feeds other activities by the organised crime. And this is the spiral of evil that we would like to undo.

May I repeat what I said to Ms Fritzon earlier that this is a holistic, global war on crime. But this global war, as all wars that have to be won, have to be won intelligently. And this would require very specific interventions along very specific lines of action.

Judging from your angle, that has to do with the Mafia-type operations, there I think our safest bet is to follow the money. And indeed, some of the most successful anti-Mafia operations have been through the intelligent use of following the money.

This takes me again to the point that I made earlier, if you allow me to repeat it, that we now have on the table robust proposals for a new generation of instruments for anti-money laundering. I plead for a speedy, swift adoption of this legislation by this House. That would be an additional tool in our toolbox.

  Piernicola Pedicini (Verts/ALE). – Solo per una precisazione. Io ho un fatto riferimento preciso al traffico di armi.

Faccio un esempio per essere più chiaro: quando è nata al-Qaeda, al tempo della dissoluzione della ex Jugoslavia, la mafia gli ha fornito le armi. Lo stesso è avvenuto con l'Isis e lo stesso sta avvenendo adesso in Ucraina. È questo che sto dicendo. È di questo che vorrei avere risposta.

  Margaritis Schinas, Vice-President of the Commission. – Yes, this is a more specific question compared to the original one, which was linked to the Mafia.

If your angle is only on arms trafficking, arms trafficking is illegal under all possible definitions of law, national and European. We have rules in place. We have consistently pursued this and we have very specific rules also for importing arms into the European Union.

This arsenal of legislation is there. I’m sorry to abuse of the term ‘arsenal’. You can call it a ‘toolkit’ or ‘rulebook’. We have the rules, but we need to make sure that they are uniformly adopted across the European Union.

Let me also take this opportunity to tell you that in the security union report, which we will also be presenting tomorrow, this rule of uniform application of existing legislation in the area of security would be at the top of our agenda. We will have infringement procedures against those Member States that are not adopting or implementing the rules that we have agreed, and this covers the issue of arms trafficking, arms imports and arms circulation.

  Charlie Weimers (ECR). – Mr President, Commissioner Schinas. One of the countries in which organised crime has been on a steep rise since the onset of the millennium is Sweden. 20 years ago, Sweden used to have the least amount of deadly shootings in Europe; now it’s at the top. The only country not at war with more bombings than Sweden is Mexico. Europe would do itself a favour by asking how this was allowed to happen.

For many years, Sweden was in a state of denial. The size of the migration had nothing to do with failed integration, they said. Now, to prevent and to fight organised crime, we must recognise the connection between mass migration and the steep rise in organised crime and violence. The fight against illegal migration must take priority over the universal right to apply for asylum, and illegal residents must be expelled.

This won’t solve anything, Commissioner. It won’t solve everything, but it would give some breathing room in a situation where the criminal organisations have 30 000 members in Sweden, while there are only 11 000 police officers. My question to you, Commissioner, is: are you ready to commit yourself to anything of this?

  President. – Just before giving the floor to Commissioner Schinas, I would like to make reminder that the showing of pictures is not allowed, according to our Rules.

  Margaritis Schinas, Vice-President of the Commission. – Let me say not only to Mr Weimers, but also to this House that radicalisation does not happen in the carpeted halls of the European Parliament. It happens in our schools. It happens in our streets, in our prisons, and it happens online. So radicalisation is also a threat that we need to be able to address effectively and intelligently.

Our first line of defence is local practitioners. This is what the Radicalisation Awareness Network that we have established has done in training teachers, workers, community police officers, child protection workers, and mental health care professionals. This is how you fight radicalisation.

I understand that there is a temptation in the minds of a certain school of thought to simplify and project all this as Europe’s fault, but that begs the question: what Europe are we talking about? Because if Mr Weimers has in mind criminals, radicalised terrorists, and tries to construct the argument that this is Brussels, then the counterargument is: why did the terrorist who shot two Swedish citizens and killed them yesterday not returned, as he should have been for years, under the rules that we have not yet been able to enact? Why? Because the Returns Directive is the only element of the Pact on Migration and Asylum that you don’t like, for which the European Parliament has not yet adopted a common position. So you cannot denounce Europe for failing to enact the rules that we propose because the Returns Directive is not yet adopted.

I’m saying this to call again for some cool, sober analysis of a very complex situation. I can simplify too, but I will resist this temptation. Let’s stick to the facts; let’s change our rules; let’s work together; and let’s fight the radicals and the terrorists head—on without simplification.

  Charlie Weimers (ECR). – Mr President, I am not simplifying anything here. I’m just stating the facts that failed migration policies to Sweden have led to a very urgent situation in which, as I said, there are 30 000 members of these gangs, not Islamist gangs, but violent drug-trafficking, weapons-trafficking gangs. And they are killing each other, and people –innocent people – are suffering. And I am asking you to focus on this in your future work.

  Margaritis Schinas, Vice-President of the Commission. – Yes. We have proposed as part of our proposal for a Return Directive to have mandatory forced return for people with security backgrounds like convictions, threat to public order and security. Do it quickly and do it without period of voluntary return notice. These rules have not yet been enacted. It is Europe that wants them to enact, it’s Europe that pushes this legislation, so Europe cannot be responsible for the problem, because we are responsible for the remedy. And I take again this opportunity to ask for this House, from all wings of this House, that we move quickly with a common position on the Return Directive. We need the Return Directive as part of our overall migration policy, and I would very much hope, very much hope, that in the light of the brutal terrorist attacks in Belgium yesterday and in France a few days ago, we do not lose more time on the need and the urgency to have them adopted. This would be the least we can do to complete the overall security puzzle around terrorism.

  Jeroen Lenaers (PPE). – Mr President, Commissioner, I wasn’t going to ask this originally, but given the sense that you raise this point yourself now with the Return Directive, I share your need for having a Return Directive, an upgraded Return Directive. But how do you feel about the direction that this Return Directive is heading in in the Parliament? Do you see a need for a Return Directive if there is actually nothing in there of the original proposal by the European Commission, if the mandatory forced return of people with security background is actually deleted, if the possibility for detention is diminished, if the possibility for determining risk of absconding is less flexible than it should be? How do you feel about a Return Directive that goes into that direction?

Secondly, my original question: crime is cross-border. Crime is by definition cross-border and it needs a European answer. We see that the police is doing great work and the possibilities are there to cooperate. What we also see is that local authorities – and you mentioned local communities – are trying to play their part, but are hampered in their cross-border cooperation because of the lack of a legal base. Do you agree that we should help local authorities’ cross-border cooperation and can you do anything from your side to facilitate that?

  Margaritis Schinas, Vice-President of the Commission. – Mr Lenaers, dear Jeroen, as you know, I have been a Member of this House. I was a Member of the European Parliament, and I have the fullest respect to the proceedings of this House. And one thing that I learned from experience is that I never comment intentions of this House. I comment positions of this House. And this is the moment now to have a common position on the Returns Directive.

It matters a lot because, as your colleagues will tell you, Tomas Tobé, Fabienne Keller, who are building now a new asylum and migration pact, this will never be convincing unless we have a Returns Directive, a returns culture developing alongside.

So how this would look? Well, I know what we have proposed. I may repeat it. Swift returns for people with security background. People with convictions. People we have proof of being aggressive to public order security without period of voluntary return. We know what kind of people we are talking about. This is the kind of person that killed the two Swedish nationals. These are the people that we need to be able to send back, to avoid having them absconded, to avoid having them fall through the cracks.

So this is an urgency. It’s a priority. And this would solidify; this will bring equilibrium into our migration and asylum pact house that we are building.

On the other part of your question: yes, I fully agree that local authorities have a role to play in security, and there is a success story that we would like very much to emulate, which is the city of Nice.

The city of Nice, immediately after the terrible terrorist attack of 14 July 2016, with our help, has built up a great security-proof design of public space. They have completely redesigned the public spaces of the city. They have set up effective control systems for crowd management, security equipment, with our help. And I would very much suggest and recommend that all local authorities that need to get a security check could visit Nice. The Commission is ready to help.

  President. – Follow-up questions are only in the first round, I’m sorry, and you had the chance to ask two questions in the first round. Those are the rules of the debate.

  Kathleen Van Brempt (S&D). – Thank you very much, Mr President, and thank you for this timely discussion against the backdrop of the action plan against drugs and the European Port Alliance. And it’s about ports that I want to raise my question. As you know, ports are key access for high-volume illicit drug imports. And they target mostly the bigger ports like Antwerp, Rotterdam, Hamburg. Can I give you an example? In 2022, nearly 110 tonnes of cocaine was seized in the port of Antwerp, making it the biggest entry point of cocaine in the world, taking over from Amsterdam the year before. And as you know, the consequences in our society are huge, but also in the cities that are linked to this because we see increased violence, bombings and shootings in my own town are a sad example. I have two questions: You mentioned already the importance of working together between customs authorities, can you be a little bit more specific how you see that? Because already today Rotterdam and Antwerp are working closely together. And from the Europol reports, we know that these gangs and these criminal organisations, they rely very much on insiders in the ports. And how will the support strategy help to combat corruption there?

  Margaritis Schinas, Vice-President of the Commission. – Thank you, Ms Van Brempt. Indeed, three points on your very pertinent question.

First of all, why ports matter. Well, because as logistic hubs, our ports contribute to around 75 % of our external trade and 31 % of internal trade volumes. Because of these numbers, they are particularly vulnerable to drug smuggling and exploitation by high-risk, high-technology-driven criminal networks.

This is why, with Paolo Gentiloni, we wanted to bring in this Ports Alliance element into our roadmap that you will see tomorrow, and in particular within this mobilise the customs community.

The customs community needs to strengthen risk management and target more effectively the controls in the ports to account for the fact that 70 % of all drug seizures happen in the ports.

So we will continue to use the so-called CCEI, the customs control equipment instrument, a programme that we support from the EU, and we will be allocating more than EUR 200 million to fund state-of-the-art equipment that can help customs officers to scan containers and check imports for hidden consignments of illicit drugs in a more systematic and big scale.

As to the more specific issue of Belgium and the Netherlands, you will certainly know that both countries have joined efforts with the leading multinational shipping companies to improve controls and exchange information on drug trafficking in the ports of Antwerp and Rotterdam. It is important that in this fight we also involve the private sector and one of the key actions of our European Ports Alliance is precisely not only the link with the international partners, but also the effective link with the private sector operators in the shipping sector that they can do more to help.

  Tomas Tobé (PPE). – Herr talman! I går slog terrorn återigen till med full kraft. Svenskar valdes ut i ett islamistiskt terrordåd. Sverige, Belgien och Europa behöver nu höja säkerheten för att öka tryggheten.

Men något som också terroriserar Europas medborgare är den organiserade brottsligheten. I Sverige lever vi i dag med skjutningar, sprängningar, barn som skjuter barn, oskyldiga som drabbas. Men gängkriminaliteten finns överallt. De kriminella nätverken, 70 procent av de kriminella nätverken, opererar i minst tre medlemsländer samtidigt.

Kommissionär Schinas, behöver vi inte ett mer kraftfullt Europol? Behöver vi inte ett Europol som är mer operativt för att kunna stoppa droger och vapen från att komma in i Europa och som verkligen ser till att vi jagar de kriminella så att de inte har makten över våra samhällen?

  Margaritis Schinas, Vice-President of the Commission. – First of all, Mr Tomas, dear Tobé, let me reiterate my deepest condolences for the loss of your compatriots yesterday in Brussels. I think all Europeans, not only Belgians and Swedes, feel the same outrage against this senseless, barbaric terrorist attack that some intend to dress with ideology. For us, it is clear that this is pure and simple brutal murder.

There is, of course, a correlation between drug trafficking and increased violence, as there is clearly a correlation with the broader geopolitical developments happening in the Middle East. Our role as the European Union is to work at all levels. There is no security button to push in Brussels that would automatically improve the situation at all levels. This is a very complex, multi-level and multi-computational story. Europol is already doing a lot, both in terms of following very closely the organised transborder criminals, but also on prevention with a very improved technological means that they now have in place as a result of the new mandate that we have approved some years ago, and with an estimated number of 35 million illicit firearms in civilian hands in the EU, you understand what I was telling your colleague earlier, that we need to prioritise the new rules on firearms that we have proposed last October. Now is the time to prioritise these proposals. Same applies to the argument that I made with regard to the Return Directive. We have proposals, we have tools on the table that we now need to enact into legislation and make sure that they apply in a uniform way across the European Union.

  Thijs Reuten (S&D). –Mr President, thank you Commissioner for being here. As you know, the ruthlessness of international criminal networks has a huge impact on our societies. And the brutal murders of, for example, Dutch lawyer Derk Wiersum, innocent people killed by mistake and the tragic death, of course, of Peter de Vries are prime examples.

Cross-border crime needs cross-border solutions. So the ports of Rotterdam and Antwerp have been already mentioned. But I want to ask you, should we not try to prevent the drugs from arriving in these ports? If we wait until the drugs arrive in the ports, we might be late. So we should also address this at the roots – ‘upstream disruption’, as it’s called.

What are the Commission’s plans on assisting in the fight against the production of drugs in countries such as Colombia and also inside the European Union? Because, for example, the production of synthetic drugs in the Netherlands is a root cause of streams inside the European Union. So to what extent are you also facilitating and improving the exchange of experiences and best practices between Member States with this regard?

  Margaritis Schinas, Vice-President of the Commission. – I had the chance already to reply to a previous question on the importance of engaging with Latin American countries, precisely to engage on the upstream prevention track, which is equally important as is the work we do with ports at the import moment.

The Belgian Minister for Interior, Annelies Verlinden, together with Ylva Johansson, they already visited Latin America and President von der Leyen did the same a few months later. And I am going end of October to four Latin American countries, not only to discuss issues that pertain to my portfolio, but also, more particularly, to continue engaging on the upstream cooperation on drugs.

We are doing a lot in these countries, helping the law enforcement agencies, supporting projects that help us. We now hope that the engagement of the shipping companies will add value to our work among states. This is clearly an element, where without the cooperation of our shipping companies, it’s not easy to work. And I have already asked our EU Drugs Agency, which is located in Lisbon, to also get themselves involved in projects and sign cooperation agreements. They will be signing one in a few weeks’ time, before my arrival, with Peru. So in a way, this is the track. The work stream that you indicated is very much in line with what we design and what we try to achieve in practice.

  Caterina Chinnici (PPE). – La criminalità organizzata in tutte le sue forme, lo abbiamo detto, così come il terrorismo, purtroppo lo abbiamo appena visto, minaccia la sicurezza, la libertà, i diritti dei cittadini, i valori dell'Unione, di tutta l'Unione, non di singoli Stati perché i gruppi criminali organizzati non conoscono confini.

E allora serve una risposta che sia autenticamente comune e che, come nell'esperienza maturata nel mio paese, l'Italia, sia fondata su scambio di informazioni, cooperazione, coordinamento e contrasto patrimoniale, il "Follow the money" da Lei stesso citato.

E allora bene la strategia del 2021, i provvedimenti sin qui adottati fino alle più recenti direttive su confisca e corruzione, ma non basta. Di tutti gli "EU crimes" la criminalità organizzata è forse l'unica ancora regolata da un atto pre-Lisbona.

E allora io ho due domande per Lei: Le vorrei chiedere qual è l'esito dello studio avviato dalla Commissione per valutare se la decisione quadro 841 del 2008 sia ancora adeguata allo scopo o non sia piuttosto un'arma spuntata contro la criminalità organizzata, come molti sostengono.

E poi, se intende la Commissione, finalmente direi, proporre una direttiva organica come è stato fatto per il terrorismo nella passata legislatura, che sia proprio indirizzata a contrastare le attuali organizzazioni criminali, vere e proprie imprese spesso a vocazione globale.

  Margaritis Schinas, Vice-President of the Commission. – We have taken the decision under this Commission to work in the area of security by building an EU security union under a single roof. We did that precisely to harmonise the very fragmented and silo-type approach that many of our actions in the past used to have.

This single EU security union house precisely allows us to help to fight organised crime by activating everything we have across the policy board. So, it’s not a question of fighting organised crime only with regulatory options that are tailored to organised crime. We fight with everything we have in our disposal. Everything: anti-money laundering legislation, proposals for sanctions, external relations, international relations. And, of course, we have proposals, as part of our strategy against our organised crime, as I was saying earlier: the ‘follow the money’ proposals for asset recovery and confiscation package. Unfortunately, these proposals have not yet been adopted.

Before engaging in other, new types of initiatives under this EU security union house, we need – especially as we are approaching the last stretch of the current political cycle – to have all these pending proposals adopted and complete our toolbox.

  Ivan Vilibor Sinčić (NI). – Poštovani predsjedavajući, mi u Hrvatskoj imamo velikih problema s organiziranim kriminalom. On je na svim razinama, pa tako i na političkoj razini.

Naša vladajuća stranka pravomoćno je osuđena, ponavljam, pravomoćno je osuđena od strane Vrhovnog suda Republike Hrvatske da je kriminalna organizacija. Dakle, govorimo o organiziranom kriminalu. Zato što su organizirali sistemsku pljačku svega - javnih poduzeća, naftne kompanije, pošte, željeznice, čega god hoćete. Ti isti ljudi dolaze u Bruxelles, dolaze u Strasbourg, druže se s Komisijom, kao da su vaši najveći prijatelji. Teško je uvjeriti građane Hrvatske da nekakva borba protiv korupcije ili europske vrijednosti doista postoje ako nema apsolutno nikakvih mjera protiv ogromne sistemske političke korupcije u Republici Hrvatskoj.

Dakle, moje pitanje je ima li Komisija ikakve mjere ili namjere stati na kraj korupciji, političkoj, u Hrvatskoj, Bugarskoj i raznim drugim zemljama?

  Margaritis Schinas, Vice-President of the Commission. – Okay, probably Mr Sinčić would have liked, would have preferred to take this argument in the national parliamentary debate. This is the House of European Democracy. This is the European Parliament. And in the European Parliament, as is the case in the European Union, the rule of law applies. Democracy applies. The fight against corruption applies. And all this is not declaratory. This is rule based and not only rule based, but also linked to our economic governance. Because many of these policy objectives are now being embedded into the so-called semester, the European Semester process, which links the economic policy mix with the reforms that are necessary to sustain it. So, yes, the European Union is a force of good. And if things go wrong, the European Union has the tools, the structures and the instruments to correct any wrongdoings. OLAF, EPPO, the Ombudsman, we have structures and also this House controls the proper implementation of the EU budget. So this is the European way of looking at, what seems to me, a very national approach to the issues we are discussing today.

  Saskia Bricmont (Verts/ALE). – Monsieur le Président, Monsieur le Vice-Président, les causes et les conséquences de la criminalité organisée liée au trafic de drogue en Europe sont multiples et elles doivent trouver – vous l’avez dit, Monsieur Schinás – des réponses systémiques.

Certaines ont déjà été évoquées dans la séance de questions-réponses, mais, outre la nécessaire approche répressive contre les criminels, il faut aussi d’urgence des mesures d’ordre économique, social, culturel, mais aussi des politiques destinées à la jeunesse pour prévenir le développement des activités criminelles, notamment dans des quartiers précarisés et au sein des populations déjà précarisées. La criminalité organisée ne peut plus être une voie profitable pour des enfants en déshérence.

D’autre part, les populations des quartiers affectés par les règlements de compte et la violence généralisée doivent aussi pouvoir bénéficier de notre soutien. Utilisons les profits de ces crimes – qui sont confisqués – pour la prévention et pour le soutien aux communautés affectées.

Et donc quelles sont ces mesures de prévention que vous apportez et qui sont mises en place? Quelles sont les mesures d’accompagnement qui sont prévues, pour les communautés affectées, mais aussi pour les jeunes, qui sont forcés de collaborer à la criminalité organisée? Enfin, que penser de la volonté d’Europol de mettre fin à ce chiffrage de bout en bout, dans le cadre de ses missions de lutte contre la criminalité organisée? La surveillance généralisée est-elle vraiment la solution? Le respect de la vie privée et la confidentialité des échanges ne sont-ils pas des prérequis dans un État de droit?

  Margaritis Schinas, vice-président de la Commission. – Oui, Madame Bricmont, je suis d’accord avec vous: quand on aborde des questions sociétales d’une telle complexité, comme les drogues, la criminalité, effectivement, les réponses que nous devons apporter doivent être des réponses holistiques.

Et en effet, l’angle qui prévaut, ici, cet après-midi, est l’angle sécuritaire. Mais vous soulignez, à juste titre, que, en amont, il faut œuvrer pour construire des sociétés cohésives, résilientes, justes, où il n’y a pas de marginalisation, où tout le monde peut avoir sa chance, où il y a une économie compétitive qui offre des possibilités à tout le monde, et non seulement aux élites.

Tout cela s’inscrit dans ce que nous faisons dans l’Union européenne. J’utilise ici la première personne du pluriel car c’est un combat partagé. Vous connaissez les dépenses du budget de l’Union pour la cohésion, pour l’inclusion sociale, pour la lutte contre le chômage, pour la lutte contre la marginalisation. Vous connaissez les projets nationaux de notre plan de relance: dans chaque projet national du plan de relance, il y a une enveloppe centrée sur les personnes, qui porte sur les compétences, sur le développement du capital humain.

Et puis il y a un volet qui fait aussi partie de mon portefeuille: le domaine des vecteurs d’intégration, comme l’éducation, le sport, la jeunesse. Tout cela représente un peu ce que nous appelons le «mode de vie européen», expression que vous n’avez pas beaucoup aimée au début de ce mandat. Mais je pense que, quatre ans plus tard, tout le monde se rend compte que ce «mode de vie européen» est une réalité tangible, qui nous entoure et qu’il faut promouvoir et défendre à la fois.

Dernier point, sur la surveillance: je connais et je respecte la sensibilité que vous avez à l’égard de cette question. Je connais aussi votre travail. La surveillance n’est admise, selon la loi de l’Union, que si elle est autorisée par les instances judiciaires et uniquement quand elle cible les «méchants» – the bad guys. Les autres n’ont rien à craindre.

  Balázs Hidvéghi (NI). – Mr President, Commissioner, the fight against organised crime is obviously an area where European cooperation is a welcome thing. We all agree about that; it is very important.

However, these efforts are completely undermined by the EU-conceived Brussels policy on migration, in my view. We are at a situation right now where criminal organisations or human smugglers are the ones who really decide who can come to Europe in the end. There are NGOs who tacitly cooperate with them and they transport these people into Europe instead of returning them to where they came from.

Now it is certainly not a European interest to allow people in great numbers to come to Europe who really don’t belong here, who don’t share our values, who don’t share our culture and our way of thinking, people who have really nothing to do with Europe and who pose a danger to Europeans, very often a deadly danger, as we have sadly seen over the past few days.

Now, Commissioner, would you agree with me that the only way to avoid this situation and to have a new chapter would be to make sure that the decision on who can enter Europe and who cannot is made outside of the European Union? And, related to that, strong border protection is reinstated with the ...

(The President cut off the speaker)

  Margaritis Schinas, Vice-President of the Commission. – Mr President, thank you all, honourable Members, for the quality of this question time. I really appreciate it.

On the questions posed, let me distinguish between one, which is the overall framework for migration and asylum. I said the other time, in the last plenary, that everything that we do not like about migration in Europe nowadays is the direct consequence of the fact that we still do not have the agreement on an EU Pact on Migration and Asylum. The lack of agreement is the major pull factor that the smugglers exploit to organise the type of activities that you don’t like.

If you want to correct what we don’t like, I would very much appreciate that you personally and your group and others like-minded help us to get this deal through. After decades of failure, we are now nearing a historic agreement that, for the first time, will enable the European Union to have a cohesive, holistic, global framework for migration and asylum anchored in EU law, financed by EU resources, applicable by EU institutions.

Let us see if, when we have it, the situation will be the same as the one that you are denouncing. I take the opportunity and I salute the presence of the Secretary of State for the Spanish Presidency, who has been one of the key architects of this historic deal that we are now nearing.

Last point on extraterritorial options, solutions: this is a debate that refuses to go away. But having it does not mean that we’re coming closer to a feasible outcome. These are ideas that have been floated, tested, proven and failed. So I’m not a fan of extra-territoriality. I believe that the European Union should live up to its name as a Union and find solutions with ourselves. We cannot subcontract to others our legal, moral and political obligations.

  President. – That concludes Question Time.

IN THE CHAIR: ROBERTA METSOLA
President